Obviously we don't know who are targets are but if we can find another Ricardo, then absolutely cash in.
He's a good player, but a bit like Maguire never going to be brilliant, the lad cannot cross or pass to save his life.
This kind of thing illustrates why a club like ours will struggle to ever consistently break into the top six - let alone the top 4. People talk about building a squad or a team but, as soon as we get any promising players, there is a whole list of big clubs they're supposedly linked with. Maguire gone; Chilwell, Maddison and Soyuncu linked. It will only be a matter of time before the likes of Ricardo and N'didi are told they need to be playing elsewhere.
So how do we break this cycle? To my mind we shouldn't stop the ambition of players by blocking moves as this might affect the ability to attract them in the first place. All we can do is make ourselves really difficult to deal with and hold out for as ridiculous a fee as possible for our players (see Maguire).
In Chilwell's particular case I think we should try and keep him. This is more because of the message it sends to other clubs rather than anything to do with his ability. I don't want us to get a reputation that our players are for sale - or we just become Southampton.
The player himself is overrated in my opinion. He's not advanced beyond 'promising', which is a shame as he has all the natural attributes to be a decent player. If we could force the fee up beyond £60m then we would be getting into the realms of a club seriously over paying - which we should try and make any club do if they want him.
So I want to keep him, but not because I think he's a brilliant player.
The only way you can break the cycle is the way Man City did. With huge amounts of money and a stated ambition to get to the very top. Even then it took Man City about 5 years and lots of money to do it.
Until that happens then the best we can hope for is to break the top 6 by using the money made from players we sell wisely with new recruits.
In terms of Chilwell I’d be happy to cash in. I don’t rate him that highly if I’m honest, I think he’s in the Maguire category of being overrated and his final ball is awful.
I’d be gutted if we lost Maddison or Ricardo though
What length of contract does he have?
I’d go to beat Maguire record fee personally.
Here’s me chipping in, once again on an irregular basis.
I saw this lad make his debut at Hull on the night the floodlights failed and was immediately impressed with his tenacity, running through the middle and balance. He’s since moved up to become an accomplished player but I’m now reading on here that he doesn’t possess the throwing prowess that Fuchs provides and the latter should now be selected ahead of him for other reasons too.
I gather Fuchs’s best years may now be behind him so if BR pitches in and selects him ahead of Chilwell who, in turn, is then sold, who is going to cover an ageing defender who may not be able to last the course of a huge chunk of the season yet to come?
These are genuine questions aimed at you chaps who attend and/or assess the matches on a weekly basis and without which my insight into daily life at the KP would be much the poorer.
Perhaps I should step in and correct myself here ahead of being lambasted-BR doesn’t pick the team, and maybe I’ve got everything else I’ve mentioned horribly wrong.
Doesn’t the lad we signed from Luton play either side?
I think Justin can deputise at left back TB but he’s a right sided player.
I’m with BS on this one. Our record of selling our good-ish players and replacing them is good. Yes it’s impossible to replace the Mahrez’s and Kante’s of this world, but Drinkeater (lol), Maguire (lol) we al have been moved on and we’ve improved.
The fact that our recruitment team have had time on this tells me we will have a strong candidate list and I just don’t see Chilwell as the talent people see. I say people, I mean other managers in the game. Pep seems to love him if his on field hug fests are to be believed.
But when did Pep ever know more about football than me?
I agree with the thoughts above. We are never going to be able to pay the same wages as the likes of Man Utd and as such we should expect to lose our very best players. If we can extract very high fees for them when we sell then personally I think that is OK. The fact that we are proving able to really develop young players and move them on to the next level (e.g. becoming internationals) should mean that we will always be able to sign some of the best young players, providing our scouting is good. The new training facility should really help on the recruitment front too.
As to the question about whether that will be good enough for a regular top six place, I think it will ultimately depend on how badly/often other teams implode. In any one season, at least a couple of the 'big 6' are not at their best so there is always a chance. UTF
My feeling for this and similar attempts to attract our players is that if want to keep them and they’re at all content to stay, keep them. There’s nothing wrong with us allowing players to move on, but the buying club must always recognise that it’s going to be both difficult and expensive.
Regarding Chilwell, he’s had a poor start to the season and against Liverpool he was atrocious. But he had a very good season last year and I believe what we’re seeing at the moment is poor form, perhaps combined with carrying a knock. He could do with a pause, but only for a while.
Mixed views on Chilwell, as was prett6 decent last season, however this season so far he has been pretty poor for the most part and v Liverpool he was atrocious
He passing and crossing is terrible. Get Fuchs back in for a while, might give Chilwell a kick up the rear end
“Regarding Chilwell, he’s had a poor start to the season and against Liverpool he was atrocious. But he had a very good season last year and I believe what we’re seeing at the moment is poor form, perhaps combined with carrying a knock.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep saying this about a “very good season” Dunge but, for me, it depends how you define it.
Certainly his progress over the last couple of seasons has justified Puel’s decision to give him an extended run in the team. He’s improved his composure and positioning and built on his great running and athleticism.
He has, however, not improved on his passing, distribution, crossing or final ball to the extent where the jury remains out. To be a top half PL player he needs to either be a great defender (which he isn’t) or a great attacking outlet (which he isn’t). Fuchs is a more composed player on the ball and a better defender. He just doesn’t have the legs that Chilwell has to get up and down the wing, which is essential in the formation we’re playing.
Personally I don’t think we have a choice, but to stick with BC and hope he continues to improve. For me that means better than last season as he was still far from the finished article then. The cautionary tale here is if he leaves we need to find better. Fuchs is only a short term option and isn’t going to take the team forward. Hopefully Chilwell will get the support he needs to realise his potential and then, if he does have to go, it will be for a ridiculous amount of money.
What I saw from Chilwell last season was great energy, consistency, composure, defensive improvement, good touch, rarely if ever having a bad game and looking like some progress was being made on his delivery - plus getting himself into the England set-up and staying there with some fine international performances. That's not to say there weren't still areas to work on, notably crossing and adding more assists and goals, but his game had improved in a lot of areas to the point where he had absolutely nailed the number 1 left back spot to the point where the talk had turned to whether we could keep him rather than whether we should find better.
So far this season, he's looked well off the pace in comparison. The club need to get to the bottom of it.
Or cash in on yet another vastly overpriced asset and replace with someone better?
Personally I'd tend to keep, for assorted reasons already mentioned.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
What I saw from Chilwell last season was great energy, consistency, composure, defensive improvement, good touch, rarely if ever having a bad game and looking like some progress was being made on his delivery - plus getting himself into the England set-up and staying there with some fine international performances. That's not to say there weren't still areas to work on, notably crossing and adding more assists and goals, but his game had improved in a lot of areas to the point where he had absolutely nailed the number 1 left back spot to the point where the talk had turned to whether we could keep him rather than whether we should find better.
So far this season, he's looked well off the pace in comparison. The club need to get to the bottom of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DM,
That’s fair enough
My only slight retort would be around the England bit. I never know why people use that as evidence for a player’s level when 90% of games are against sides of very poor quality. But the evidence that it’s seen fit to pick him for the international team in the first place is valid.
Anyway, I’m done with this issue now as there are far more important matters to discuss on the ‘Wag Fight’ thread.
My view is without BS asking for blood samples to prove it,as i said in the past my boy was at college with some of Chilwell's mates and they said he wanted to go to Liverpool but that fell through and he has no particular alliance to LCFC as he's from Milton keynes i think.
So maybe he is just unhappy and wants a move nad this is coming out in his play, its just a thought?
If big teams are interested but not sure, playing badly is not the way to stay on their radar.
Why would he go to Liverpool to only play in the League Cup?
Man City would be the obvious choice as you have to defend less there. Can Pep fix his lack of quality in the final 3rd?
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 10 hours, 53 minutes ago
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always use this example that rubbish players can do ok with great management and with great players around them 😉
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 10 hours, 53 minutes ago
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always use this example that rubbish players can do ok with great management and with great players around them 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we just need to buy Sergio Aguero, Kevin De Bruyne and David Silva - and Demarai Gray will look like Messi.
If only BR realised it was that easy!
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posted on 8/10/19
Obviously we don't know who are targets are but if we can find another Ricardo, then absolutely cash in.
He's a good player, but a bit like Maguire never going to be brilliant, the lad cannot cross or pass to save his life.
posted on 8/10/19
This kind of thing illustrates why a club like ours will struggle to ever consistently break into the top six - let alone the top 4. People talk about building a squad or a team but, as soon as we get any promising players, there is a whole list of big clubs they're supposedly linked with. Maguire gone; Chilwell, Maddison and Soyuncu linked. It will only be a matter of time before the likes of Ricardo and N'didi are told they need to be playing elsewhere.
So how do we break this cycle? To my mind we shouldn't stop the ambition of players by blocking moves as this might affect the ability to attract them in the first place. All we can do is make ourselves really difficult to deal with and hold out for as ridiculous a fee as possible for our players (see Maguire).
In Chilwell's particular case I think we should try and keep him. This is more because of the message it sends to other clubs rather than anything to do with his ability. I don't want us to get a reputation that our players are for sale - or we just become Southampton.
The player himself is overrated in my opinion. He's not advanced beyond 'promising', which is a shame as he has all the natural attributes to be a decent player. If we could force the fee up beyond £60m then we would be getting into the realms of a club seriously over paying - which we should try and make any club do if they want him.
So I want to keep him, but not because I think he's a brilliant player.
posted on 8/10/19
The only way you can break the cycle is the way Man City did. With huge amounts of money and a stated ambition to get to the very top. Even then it took Man City about 5 years and lots of money to do it.
Until that happens then the best we can hope for is to break the top 6 by using the money made from players we sell wisely with new recruits.
In terms of Chilwell I’d be happy to cash in. I don’t rate him that highly if I’m honest, I think he’s in the Maguire category of being overrated and his final ball is awful.
I’d be gutted if we lost Maddison or Ricardo though
posted on 8/10/19
What length of contract does he have?
I’d go to beat Maguire record fee personally.
posted on 8/10/19
Here’s me chipping in, once again on an irregular basis.
I saw this lad make his debut at Hull on the night the floodlights failed and was immediately impressed with his tenacity, running through the middle and balance. He’s since moved up to become an accomplished player but I’m now reading on here that he doesn’t possess the throwing prowess that Fuchs provides and the latter should now be selected ahead of him for other reasons too.
I gather Fuchs’s best years may now be behind him so if BR pitches in and selects him ahead of Chilwell who, in turn, is then sold, who is going to cover an ageing defender who may not be able to last the course of a huge chunk of the season yet to come?
These are genuine questions aimed at you chaps who attend and/or assess the matches on a weekly basis and without which my insight into daily life at the KP would be much the poorer.
posted on 8/10/19
Perhaps I should step in and correct myself here ahead of being lambasted-BR doesn’t pick the team, and maybe I’ve got everything else I’ve mentioned horribly wrong.
posted on 8/10/19
Doesn’t the lad we signed from Luton play either side?
posted on 8/10/19
I think Justin can deputise at left back TB but he’s a right sided player.
I’m with BS on this one. Our record of selling our good-ish players and replacing them is good. Yes it’s impossible to replace the Mahrez’s and Kante’s of this world, but Drinkeater (lol), Maguire (lol) we al have been moved on and we’ve improved.
The fact that our recruitment team have had time on this tells me we will have a strong candidate list and I just don’t see Chilwell as the talent people see. I say people, I mean other managers in the game. Pep seems to love him if his on field hug fests are to be believed.
But when did Pep ever know more about football than me?
posted on 8/10/19
I agree with the thoughts above. We are never going to be able to pay the same wages as the likes of Man Utd and as such we should expect to lose our very best players. If we can extract very high fees for them when we sell then personally I think that is OK. The fact that we are proving able to really develop young players and move them on to the next level (e.g. becoming internationals) should mean that we will always be able to sign some of the best young players, providing our scouting is good. The new training facility should really help on the recruitment front too.
As to the question about whether that will be good enough for a regular top six place, I think it will ultimately depend on how badly/often other teams implode. In any one season, at least a couple of the 'big 6' are not at their best so there is always a chance. UTF
posted on 8/10/19
My feeling for this and similar attempts to attract our players is that if want to keep them and they’re at all content to stay, keep them. There’s nothing wrong with us allowing players to move on, but the buying club must always recognise that it’s going to be both difficult and expensive.
Regarding Chilwell, he’s had a poor start to the season and against Liverpool he was atrocious. But he had a very good season last year and I believe what we’re seeing at the moment is poor form, perhaps combined with carrying a knock. He could do with a pause, but only for a while.
posted on 9/10/19
Mixed views on Chilwell, as was prett6 decent last season, however this season so far he has been pretty poor for the most part and v Liverpool he was atrocious
He passing and crossing is terrible. Get Fuchs back in for a while, might give Chilwell a kick up the rear end
posted on 9/10/19
“Regarding Chilwell, he’s had a poor start to the season and against Liverpool he was atrocious. But he had a very good season last year and I believe what we’re seeing at the moment is poor form, perhaps combined with carrying a knock.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep saying this about a “very good season” Dunge but, for me, it depends how you define it.
Certainly his progress over the last couple of seasons has justified Puel’s decision to give him an extended run in the team. He’s improved his composure and positioning and built on his great running and athleticism.
He has, however, not improved on his passing, distribution, crossing or final ball to the extent where the jury remains out. To be a top half PL player he needs to either be a great defender (which he isn’t) or a great attacking outlet (which he isn’t). Fuchs is a more composed player on the ball and a better defender. He just doesn’t have the legs that Chilwell has to get up and down the wing, which is essential in the formation we’re playing.
Personally I don’t think we have a choice, but to stick with BC and hope he continues to improve. For me that means better than last season as he was still far from the finished article then. The cautionary tale here is if he leaves we need to find better. Fuchs is only a short term option and isn’t going to take the team forward. Hopefully Chilwell will get the support he needs to realise his potential and then, if he does have to go, it will be for a ridiculous amount of money.
posted on 9/10/19
What I saw from Chilwell last season was great energy, consistency, composure, defensive improvement, good touch, rarely if ever having a bad game and looking like some progress was being made on his delivery - plus getting himself into the England set-up and staying there with some fine international performances. That's not to say there weren't still areas to work on, notably crossing and adding more assists and goals, but his game had improved in a lot of areas to the point where he had absolutely nailed the number 1 left back spot to the point where the talk had turned to whether we could keep him rather than whether we should find better.
So far this season, he's looked well off the pace in comparison. The club need to get to the bottom of it.
posted on 9/10/19
Or cash in on yet another vastly overpriced asset and replace with someone better?
Personally I'd tend to keep, for assorted reasons already mentioned.
posted on 9/10/19
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
What I saw from Chilwell last season was great energy, consistency, composure, defensive improvement, good touch, rarely if ever having a bad game and looking like some progress was being made on his delivery - plus getting himself into the England set-up and staying there with some fine international performances. That's not to say there weren't still areas to work on, notably crossing and adding more assists and goals, but his game had improved in a lot of areas to the point where he had absolutely nailed the number 1 left back spot to the point where the talk had turned to whether we could keep him rather than whether we should find better.
So far this season, he's looked well off the pace in comparison. The club need to get to the bottom of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DM,
That’s fair enough
My only slight retort would be around the England bit. I never know why people use that as evidence for a player’s level when 90% of games are against sides of very poor quality. But the evidence that it’s seen fit to pick him for the international team in the first place is valid.
Anyway, I’m done with this issue now as there are far more important matters to discuss on the ‘Wag Fight’ thread.
posted on 9/10/19
My view is without BS asking for blood samples to prove it,as i said in the past my boy was at college with some of Chilwell's mates and they said he wanted to go to Liverpool but that fell through and he has no particular alliance to LCFC as he's from Milton keynes i think.
So maybe he is just unhappy and wants a move nad this is coming out in his play, its just a thought?
posted on 9/10/19
If big teams are interested but not sure, playing badly is not the way to stay on their radar.
posted on 9/10/19
Why would he go to Liverpool to only play in the League Cup?
Man City would be the obvious choice as you have to defend less there. Can Pep fix his lack of quality in the final 3rd?
posted on 9/10/19
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
posted on 10/10/19
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 10 hours, 53 minutes ago
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always use this example that rubbish players can do ok with great management and with great players around them 😉
posted on 10/10/19
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 10 hours, 53 minutes ago
Well he's fixed it for Raheem Sterling, so it's possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always use this example that rubbish players can do ok with great management and with great players around them 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we just need to buy Sergio Aguero, Kevin De Bruyne and David Silva - and Demarai Gray will look like Messi.
If only BR realised it was that easy!
posted on 10/10/19
😂
Page 1 of 1