The criticism of Solskjaer for me can be limited to a few things, he’s obviously not to blame for the bigger picture and has genuinely tried to take us down a route we’ve all wanted to see, with the signings of AWB, James and Maguire to some extent.
The blame is however on Ole for the football were seeing. He’s picking the side, doing the tactics etc week in week out for months now and we’ve seen no improvement.
The frustrating this is that Ole is already hampered with a poor squad and injuries, but he’s still playing formations and systems that don’t suit the players at his disposal, and was even before the injuries started.
His management of the current squad will get him the sack if he goes, nothing else should be his to be blamed for.
Bailly is injured, think he forms one of 4 centre halves that will stay Jones to go. Darmian was pants let's not kid ourselves. Di Maria never wanted to leave Madrid, got burgled and played out of position... very unhappy bunny so wanted to leave. Bastien... past his prime but was a good squad player, chopping an changing managers came into play here as JM hated him and treated him terribly. Pogba there for the money. Lukaku realised Ole preferred Martial up top, sulked and wanted to leave. Sanchez... I don't even think he knows what happened but it had to end. bottom line lack of continuity did not help at all. 4 managers 6 years. not good.
You can't judge Ole on signings. You are not in the Champions league, your squad is weak and you play horrible football so you will struggle to attract the players your club needs to challenge, we had the same issue in uncles Woy's era
Give Ole time and money
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
^agreed. The centre midfield was an increasing issue prior to Fergie leaving, never has anyone addressed that... well JM did with Matic but he doesn't suit what we want which is fast football, he is the antithesis of this. Look how Fellaini lasted for 3 managers, yet most if us hated him. Many of the better players didn't want to be at the club and this is why getting the right ones takes time. we still have 7 roughly that need to go, time is up.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been bad signings, yes. My point is that too many of our signings turn out bad when they seemed at first to be OK.
You cant ignore the human aspect. Signed by manager A not like by manager B. Or simple greed... Sanchez, maybe, Di Maria for certain. Lack f quality Darmian. Decent Bailly Lindeloff. all of the players fit into those categories not many on the last one though.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can. As I said, I’m not trying to absolve Woodward and the Glazers of blame.
But managers failing is also their own failure, as well as that of those who selected them. And I maintain that Woodward isn’t on the training ground, overseeing whatever goes on there.
The players don't seem to be running hard for Ole which would be my biggest concern if I was a united fan.
For all the issues outside hsi control Ole has direct control over effort, as manager he needs to inspire players to work harder for him and the club, and that can't just be bravado talk of "the united way", he needs to do it daily on the training ground with clear instructions and gettig players to believe in his approach.
Don't see anything from united at the moment that suggests Ole has the faith of his squad, and without that as a base he is in trouble.
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko (U10893)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just it - you can't take the wages out of the equation because that alone was a problem from day 1 - not his form.
I'm not saying it was a bad signing from a quality aspect. He was clearly a very good player but the apple cart was tipped upside down. It ruffled the feathers of everyone else.
As for Jose - how much did he spend on new players in total ?
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
they are putting effort in, they just are not very good.
Bailly is decent...you really need to get him fit again
comment by Big McTominay (U22257)
posted 8 minutes ago
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Under Ed’s stewardship, United have gone from champions to also-rans to, as it stands, mid-table mediocrity or worse. Any “CEO” who oversaw such a dramatic decline in another industry would be under severe pressure; for instance, as a school principal, if your institution falls by an Ofsted ranking, you’re often gone even if you didn’t teach a single one of those inadequate lessons.
The footballing decisions aren’t going well - terribly, in fact. Giving a manager a new contract and then not backing him. Making a new player the top-earner without anticipating the problems that would cause. Whatever on earth was going on in the summer of 2013. No continuity between managers meaning permanent flux. These are the reasons why people criticise him.
As the article says, though, training and tactics I don’t blame him for and think we could be a (more) successful club with or without him.
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 41 minutes ago
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamps has managed it
I've said this many times, it's not acceptable how poorly players are developing at United, you probably have to go all the way back to De Gea to a player who has improved since joining and reached a level fans had hoped. Every other player has declined as a player or stagnated and never reached any sort of potential. Surely this is basics in how to make a good football squad, bring players in and improve them and the team as a result.
And every manager must take most of the responsibility for that.
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 41 minutes ago
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamps has managed it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's even got Willian tracking back...
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I've said this many times, it's not acceptable how poorly players are developing at United, you probably have to go all the way back to De Gea to a player who has improved since joining and reached a level fans had hoped. Every other player has declined as a player or stagnated and never reached any sort of potential. Surely this is basics in how to make a good football squad, bring players in and improve them and the team as a result.
And every manager must take most of the responsibility for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly
So many of our signings stagnate or just fail completely. I bet even Fred would look better in a few other Premier League teams.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko (U10893)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just it - you can't take the wages out of the equation because that alone was a problem from day 1 - not his form.
I'm not saying it was a bad signing from a quality aspect. He was clearly a very good player but the apple cart was tipped upside down. It ruffled the feathers of everyone else.
As for Jose - how much did he spend on new players in total ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure how much Jose spent, but I see your point to a degree. The reason I am saying forget the wages for a second, because there is a degree of hindsight to what you're saying because of the outcome, but as a quality signing no one would have known it would've turned out that bad as you've admitted.
Going back your point, it looks 1000 times worse because of the exorbitant wages they've been paying him. I just think some of the signings they've made and how they've translated to poor form considering the reputation and form of the majority of them is quite baffling. But then this is reality and not Champ Man so no signing is guaranteed.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends. Did they pass on any glaringly obvious candidates ?
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Big McTominay (U22257)
posted 8 minutes ago
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Under Ed’s stewardship, United have gone from champions to also-rans to, as it stands, mid-table mediocrity or worse. Any “CEO” who oversaw such a dramatic decline in another industry would be under severe pressure; for instance, as a school principal, if your institution falls by an Ofsted ranking, you’re often gone even if you didn’t teach a single one of those inadequate lessons.
The footballing decisions aren’t going well - terribly, in fact. Giving a manager a new contract and then not backing him. Making a new player the top-earner without anticipating the problems that would cause. Whatever on earth was going on in the summer of 2013. No continuity between managers meaning permanent flux. These are the reasons why people criticise him.
As the article says, though, training and tactics I don’t blame him for and think we could be a (more) successful club with or without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tou cant put where we are on Ed alone. He had to succeed Gill and replace SAF. Surely you accept that's ot an east job?
Then he is reliant on the manager, coaches and players pulling their weight, which they arent.
Sign in if you want to comment
The real problem?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/10/19
The criticism of Solskjaer for me can be limited to a few things, he’s obviously not to blame for the bigger picture and has genuinely tried to take us down a route we’ve all wanted to see, with the signings of AWB, James and Maguire to some extent.
The blame is however on Ole for the football were seeing. He’s picking the side, doing the tactics etc week in week out for months now and we’ve seen no improvement.
The frustrating this is that Ole is already hampered with a poor squad and injuries, but he’s still playing formations and systems that don’t suit the players at his disposal, and was even before the injuries started.
His management of the current squad will get him the sack if he goes, nothing else should be his to be blamed for.
posted on 8/10/19
Bailly is injured, think he forms one of 4 centre halves that will stay Jones to go. Darmian was pants let's not kid ourselves. Di Maria never wanted to leave Madrid, got burgled and played out of position... very unhappy bunny so wanted to leave. Bastien... past his prime but was a good squad player, chopping an changing managers came into play here as JM hated him and treated him terribly. Pogba there for the money. Lukaku realised Ole preferred Martial up top, sulked and wanted to leave. Sanchez... I don't even think he knows what happened but it had to end. bottom line lack of continuity did not help at all. 4 managers 6 years. not good.
posted on 8/10/19
You can't judge Ole on signings. You are not in the Champions league, your squad is weak and you play horrible football so you will struggle to attract the players your club needs to challenge, we had the same issue in uncles Woy's era
Give Ole time and money
posted on 8/10/19
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
posted on 8/10/19
^agreed. The centre midfield was an increasing issue prior to Fergie leaving, never has anyone addressed that... well JM did with Matic but he doesn't suit what we want which is fast football, he is the antithesis of this. Look how Fellaini lasted for 3 managers, yet most if us hated him. Many of the better players didn't want to be at the club and this is why getting the right ones takes time. we still have 7 roughly that need to go, time is up.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been bad signings, yes. My point is that too many of our signings turn out bad when they seemed at first to be OK.
posted on 8/10/19
You cant ignore the human aspect. Signed by manager A not like by manager B. Or simple greed... Sanchez, maybe, Di Maria for certain. Lack f quality Darmian. Decent Bailly Lindeloff. all of the players fit into those categories not many on the last one though.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
posted on 8/10/19
I'm not a fan of Jose#
posted on 8/10/19
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can. As I said, I’m not trying to absolve Woodward and the Glazers of blame.
But managers failing is also their own failure, as well as that of those who selected them. And I maintain that Woodward isn’t on the training ground, overseeing whatever goes on there.
posted on 8/10/19
The players don't seem to be running hard for Ole which would be my biggest concern if I was a united fan.
For all the issues outside hsi control Ole has direct control over effort, as manager he needs to inspire players to work harder for him and the club, and that can't just be bravado talk of "the united way", he needs to do it daily on the training ground with clear instructions and gettig players to believe in his approach.
Don't see anything from united at the moment that suggests Ole has the faith of his squad, and without that as a base he is in trouble.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko (U10893)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just it - you can't take the wages out of the equation because that alone was a problem from day 1 - not his form.
I'm not saying it was a bad signing from a quality aspect. He was clearly a very good player but the apple cart was tipped upside down. It ruffled the feathers of everyone else.
As for Jose - how much did he spend on new players in total ?
posted on 8/10/19
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
posted on 8/10/19
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
posted on 8/10/19
they are putting effort in, they just are not very good.
posted on 8/10/19
Bailly is decent...you really need to get him fit again
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Big McTominay (U22257)
posted 8 minutes ago
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Under Ed’s stewardship, United have gone from champions to also-rans to, as it stands, mid-table mediocrity or worse. Any “CEO” who oversaw such a dramatic decline in another industry would be under severe pressure; for instance, as a school principal, if your institution falls by an Ofsted ranking, you’re often gone even if you didn’t teach a single one of those inadequate lessons.
The footballing decisions aren’t going well - terribly, in fact. Giving a manager a new contract and then not backing him. Making a new player the top-earner without anticipating the problems that would cause. Whatever on earth was going on in the summer of 2013. No continuity between managers meaning permanent flux. These are the reasons why people criticise him.
As the article says, though, training and tactics I don’t blame him for and think we could be a (more) successful club with or without him.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 41 minutes ago
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamps has managed it
posted on 8/10/19
I've said this many times, it's not acceptable how poorly players are developing at United, you probably have to go all the way back to De Gea to a player who has improved since joining and reached a level fans had hoped. Every other player has declined as a player or stagnated and never reached any sort of potential. Surely this is basics in how to make a good football squad, bring players in and improve them and the team as a result.
And every manager must take most of the responsibility for that.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 41 minutes ago
Like you would think the one thing a club legend would inspire as manager is effort.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamps has managed it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's even got Willian tracking back...
posted on 8/10/19
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I've said this many times, it's not acceptable how poorly players are developing at United, you probably have to go all the way back to De Gea to a player who has improved since joining and reached a level fans had hoped. Every other player has declined as a player or stagnated and never reached any sort of potential. Surely this is basics in how to make a good football squad, bring players in and improve them and the team as a result.
And every manager must take most of the responsibility for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly
So many of our signings stagnate or just fail completely. I bet even Fred would look better in a few other Premier League teams.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko (U10893)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 minutes ago
It ultimately boils down to bad signings for me.
Sanchez was a great Premier League player but he was also a bad signing because of his wages - everyone could see that from the off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, take the wages out of the equation for one second and you're telling me that he was destined to fail before he went? If we were offered Sanchez (wages not in the equation) we'd have snapped Arsenal's hand off. I don't buy it for a minute that *everyone* (generalising here) thought this was a bad signing. If anything I think the general consensus of most people was it was a good signing. However, what has happened subsequently there is no way anyone would have predicted that. Same with the majority of the signings above.
The issue at United is the owners, I'm just a fan of Jose but give him the support and it's proven he wins titles. It might not be pretty, but he wins. Funny how the only team that he didn't succeed was united and that to me was IMO due to the owners not backing him with the targets he wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just it - you can't take the wages out of the equation because that alone was a problem from day 1 - not his form.
I'm not saying it was a bad signing from a quality aspect. He was clearly a very good player but the apple cart was tipped upside down. It ruffled the feathers of everyone else.
As for Jose - how much did he spend on new players in total ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure how much Jose spent, but I see your point to a degree. The reason I am saying forget the wages for a second, because there is a degree of hindsight to what you're saying because of the outcome, but as a quality signing no one would have known it would've turned out that bad as you've admitted.
Going back your point, it looks 1000 times worse because of the exorbitant wages they've been paying him. I just think some of the signings they've made and how they've translated to poor form considering the reputation and form of the majority of them is quite baffling. But then this is reality and not Champ Man so no signing is guaranteed.
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
Surely you can blame the people who have employed 4 separate managers who have all been failures though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends. Did they pass on any glaringly obvious candidates ?
posted on 8/10/19
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Big McTominay (U22257)
posted 8 minutes ago
Ed appoints the best men for the job available at that time, and then backs them with signings.
I'm really not sure what else he (or eany other CEO for that matter)could do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Under Ed’s stewardship, United have gone from champions to also-rans to, as it stands, mid-table mediocrity or worse. Any “CEO” who oversaw such a dramatic decline in another industry would be under severe pressure; for instance, as a school principal, if your institution falls by an Ofsted ranking, you’re often gone even if you didn’t teach a single one of those inadequate lessons.
The footballing decisions aren’t going well - terribly, in fact. Giving a manager a new contract and then not backing him. Making a new player the top-earner without anticipating the problems that would cause. Whatever on earth was going on in the summer of 2013. No continuity between managers meaning permanent flux. These are the reasons why people criticise him.
As the article says, though, training and tactics I don’t blame him for and think we could be a (more) successful club with or without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tou cant put where we are on Ed alone. He had to succeed Gill and replace SAF. Surely you accept that's ot an east job?
Then he is reliant on the manager, coaches and players pulling their weight, which they arent.
Page 1 of 2