from a neutral point of view though, it keeps to premier league interesting and most importantly keeps ole at the wheel for at least another week
One of the hardest away fixture for us out of the way and we are still unbeaten.
Teams will look to stop our full backs which is something Napoli, Sheffield United and Man U have done well.
Like you said we need more from midfield. In my opinion two slots go for:
Fab, Hendo, Wij & Milner
One slot goes to:
Ox, Keita, Lallana & Shaq
Yeah, agree with the OP. Referee was poor but we didn't deserve to win anyhow. A draw was a fair result.
my views:
a) i have commented several times on us at old trafford. We never play well and its because of the bigger pitch size. We also have the same issue in away games in europe btw. Anfield is much smaller and we can press more. Simple really.
b) yes klopp got it wrong. IF you look who wnet furthest and played most henderson, wijnaldum both player 180mins. origi had a long trip for not much football and fabinho and firmino had massive trips.
They all played while milner sat on the bench unused and had two weeks off. (i'm not advocating for him mind)
c) we made ONE mistake (matip) and they scored what was frankly a lucky goal. It should really have been 0-0 result.
d) we missed salah. every time ive seen klopp switch mane to the right side in games (he's gone and done that in a 4231 and in europe) mane just shuts down. Mane has to play left side. Just has to.
d) ox cameo was unimpressive. He is still well off the pace of thought and speed. Keita cameo was far more impressive purely because he wanted to get on ball and show something.
e) UTd cough up a handy goal cos rojo is a moron and ran out of position AND young compounded it by not tracking lallana. If those two did their actual jobs we would be talking about a 0-1 loss.
In short: fresher legs needed at the outset, leave mane in his position please.
I agree, most disappointing thing was the pedestrian tempo of the entire performance. If they cant get up for this game to prove a point they never will simple as that. Doubt theyve got what it takes to win the league looks like they learnt fack all from last season, Klopps still not learnt what Utd will do, everyone knew apart from him and he couldnt get his team up for it.
Ontop of that, it unfortunately looks like lack of options upfront will hurt us as some predicted. Origi cant start for us, hes too reactive when you need to be proactive, reminds me of Benteke in that regard always caught on his heels.
MIO is correct though, all things considered they were fortunate to have been given a goal by officials.
Keita is going to be vital he needs to step up for us, we need creativity from the mf 3 especially vs teams with a low block. Fabinho and Hendo can occasionally unluck defences but not often enough. See Keita for our goal he doesnt panic and eventually plays the right pass for Robertson who proves again you dont need a perfect cross to score a goal, just ask questions make them defend it and get bodies in the box to force them to.
-perreira should have got a yellow for bringing pool player down when counter attacking
-origi was not a foul - ref was right next to him and you could see him going to the ground before he touched
-mane was unfortunate albeit handball it was. the speed it came and lindelof right next to him
Origi's fall looked on the theatrical side but it's still a foul.
Only two things were worse than the Atkinson and that was us for 80mins and VAR.
Great point on the playing players that played full international fixture and had long trips. Looks a bit amateur now that you've pointed it out. Flip side is you can understand why Klopp stuck with the working formula though.
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I agree, most disappointing thing was the pedestrian tempo of the entire performance. If they cant get up for this game to prove a point they never will simple as that. Doubt theyve got what it takes to win the league looks like they learnt fack all from last season, Klopps still not learnt what Utd will do, everyone knew apart from him and he couldnt get his team up for it.
Ontop of that, it unfortunately looks like lack of options upfront will hurt us as some predicted. Origi cant start for us, hes too reactive when you need to be proactive, reminds me of Benteke in that regard always caught on his heels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had no point to prove though?
We had 3 points to get.
Origi is a trundling cart. You get him up to speed in the right way and all is well. try and turn him round and its an issue.
I agree with OP. I expected Klopp to start Milner, who has been in good form, in place of Henderson or Wij. Milner hadn't had any football during the international break.
We missed Salah. This was an evidence why Salah is the most important player against "defensive teams". Henderson needs to be dropped against Spurs. He's been poor this season.
Any idea when Shaqiri is back?
Atkinson the referee made more mistakes than the players of both sides who themselves had poor game,
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 6 minutes ago
Only two things were worse than the Atkinson and that was us for 80mins and VAR.
Great point on the playing players that played full international fixture and had long trips. Looks a bit amateur now that you've pointed it out. Flip side is you can understand why Klopp stuck with the working formula though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes When you go away to old trafford you need a bit of work. And wijnaludm did well for 40minutes or so. He faded second half and didn't influence game at all. I was actually a little surprised klopp didn't try him as the no 10 after his efforts for holland recently. Even at least go left side of the 3.
Henderson and origi were rightly hooked but thats the issue. Yeah go for henderson away from home but you'd have got the same out of milner but with a little less wild crossing at nobody.
I still think 0-0 was a fair result but I must say we should have killed rojo and young. they were there for the taking and we only got one goal out of them. It just goes to show the issue we have in reserve i suppose.
Yeah Hendo hasn't exactly hit the heights he ended last season with. He's been hooked twice now though for poor performances. Klopp needs to have a word with him.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I think Keita will start midweek and depending on how he does will take the place of Henderson or Wijnaldum against Spurs. That game was calling out for a more attacking midfielder but you can understand Klopp's thoughts away against United.
Utd are not a great side at the moment but credit where due, they ran the channels to work the full back space, they defended really well for the majority of the game, they pressed us well and they fouled when they needed to. They were up for the battle, as they usually are against us. We weren't at our best but their performance was part of the reason.
As disappointing as it is not to beat this Utd team, ultimately we've taken a point away at a difficult ground and our results still say P9, W8, D1. I suspect every fan going would have taken that before the season started!
Did Ox really do much when he came on? The only thing of note that I can recall is when he had the chance to play someone in who was completely unmarked on the edge of their area in the last minute, and he completely over hit it and put it out for a goal kick.....
Spot on Term, other than a few long range shots and that easy misplaced pass he really didn't do much of note. Lallana was more impressive and even got his 2-3 Cryff turns in while keeping possession.
I hope we see more of Keita he looks like he is settling to the task now. Long overdue it has to be said.
Yesterdays game was not a must win. Yes some will argue its a must win given the point tallies City are capable of, but an away game against a Top 6 side is always tough I don't care who you are.
You have a 6 point cushion in which you can afford to draw your away fixtures to Arsenal, City and Spurs. Thats it really. This business of must win games in October is silly.
Although the performance was poor credit must be given to United who made it difficult in the first 45 minutes. What I did note was how nervous your players were and that must be a concern.Klopps record at Old Trafford is average and if you count the years were you were playing for pride and now where you are realistic challengers not much has changed.
Klopp got the team selection wrong and especially without Salah the safety approach doesnt do the team any favours.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 49 minutes ago
Did Ox really do much when he came on? The only thing of note that I can recall is when he had the chance to play someone in who was completely unmarked on the edge of their area in the last minute, and he completely over hit it and put it out for a goal kick.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think sometimes a player can look lively and sharp without actually doing a huge amount in terms of end product. I think Ox looked good personally but take the point that he didn't do much to directly impact.
I don't think he looked overly sharp. there was one occasion he got caught out badly and his lack of games really showed.
I just think he's on a very very long road and i don't expect much from him at all. Ideally he'd play 10/12 games in cups and a few league games this season and try and get to a point where he is an option at least. Just stay fit and available.
I was more happy with keita who wanted to get involved and be the playmaker. hopefully he also stays fit.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think Keita will start midweek and depending on how he does will take the place of Henderson or Wijnaldum against Spurs. That game was calling out for a more attacking midfielder but you can understand Klopp's thoughts away against United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt he'll get both games given where he is coming from fitness wise but I'd like to see him midweek for sure.
We badly need that option and if we need to go 4231 with an injury he is a real option at LW as well.
I'd love to see him stay fit anyway thats the most important step.
Fixtures:
Genk
Spurs
Arsenal
villa
genk
city
Genk away game first. lallana, ox and keita will all play some part. its a must win though.
Then arsenal. kids and those 3 again. Adrian, Lovren, gomez, ki, milner, keita, jones, brewster, elliott all to start imo. One of ox/lallana.
genk at home, easier game in theory. they will park bus. Pile in the creative players
Spurs game, villa game and city games are 9 points which are the ones where we need to get the return as well.
hopefully salzburg are virtually out of europe by the time we play them after.
If you guys scored a goal, and you saw for example, Nani fall over like Origi did.... you guys would be calling for him to fack off back to Portugal.
You know its the truth as well.
Origi dived, VAR made the correct decision.
If any of you fat bin dipping scousers play football, you would know that the type of touch that Lindleoff made on Origi would not impede you in any way shape or form, if anything he should've been booked for the pathetic fall.
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Disappointing
Page 1 of 2
posted on 21/10/19
from a neutral point of view though, it keeps to premier league interesting and most importantly keeps ole at the wheel for at least another week
posted on 21/10/19
One of the hardest away fixture for us out of the way and we are still unbeaten.
Teams will look to stop our full backs which is something Napoli, Sheffield United and Man U have done well.
Like you said we need more from midfield. In my opinion two slots go for:
Fab, Hendo, Wij & Milner
One slot goes to:
Ox, Keita, Lallana & Shaq
posted on 21/10/19
Yeah, agree with the OP. Referee was poor but we didn't deserve to win anyhow. A draw was a fair result.
posted on 21/10/19
my views:
a) i have commented several times on us at old trafford. We never play well and its because of the bigger pitch size. We also have the same issue in away games in europe btw. Anfield is much smaller and we can press more. Simple really.
b) yes klopp got it wrong. IF you look who wnet furthest and played most henderson, wijnaldum both player 180mins. origi had a long trip for not much football and fabinho and firmino had massive trips.
They all played while milner sat on the bench unused and had two weeks off. (i'm not advocating for him mind)
c) we made ONE mistake (matip) and they scored what was frankly a lucky goal. It should really have been 0-0 result.
d) we missed salah. every time ive seen klopp switch mane to the right side in games (he's gone and done that in a 4231 and in europe) mane just shuts down. Mane has to play left side. Just has to.
d) ox cameo was unimpressive. He is still well off the pace of thought and speed. Keita cameo was far more impressive purely because he wanted to get on ball and show something.
e) UTd cough up a handy goal cos rojo is a moron and ran out of position AND young compounded it by not tracking lallana. If those two did their actual jobs we would be talking about a 0-1 loss.
In short: fresher legs needed at the outset, leave mane in his position please.
posted on 21/10/19
I agree, most disappointing thing was the pedestrian tempo of the entire performance. If they cant get up for this game to prove a point they never will simple as that. Doubt theyve got what it takes to win the league looks like they learnt fack all from last season, Klopps still not learnt what Utd will do, everyone knew apart from him and he couldnt get his team up for it.
Ontop of that, it unfortunately looks like lack of options upfront will hurt us as some predicted. Origi cant start for us, hes too reactive when you need to be proactive, reminds me of Benteke in that regard always caught on his heels.
posted on 21/10/19
MIO is correct though, all things considered they were fortunate to have been given a goal by officials.
Keita is going to be vital he needs to step up for us, we need creativity from the mf 3 especially vs teams with a low block. Fabinho and Hendo can occasionally unluck defences but not often enough. See Keita for our goal he doesnt panic and eventually plays the right pass for Robertson who proves again you dont need a perfect cross to score a goal, just ask questions make them defend it and get bodies in the box to force them to.
posted on 21/10/19
-perreira should have got a yellow for bringing pool player down when counter attacking
-origi was not a foul - ref was right next to him and you could see him going to the ground before he touched
-mane was unfortunate albeit handball it was. the speed it came and lindelof right next to him
posted on 21/10/19
Origi's fall looked on the theatrical side but it's still a foul.
posted on 21/10/19
Only two things were worse than the Atkinson and that was us for 80mins and VAR.
Great point on the playing players that played full international fixture and had long trips. Looks a bit amateur now that you've pointed it out. Flip side is you can understand why Klopp stuck with the working formula though.
posted on 21/10/19
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I agree, most disappointing thing was the pedestrian tempo of the entire performance. If they cant get up for this game to prove a point they never will simple as that. Doubt theyve got what it takes to win the league looks like they learnt fack all from last season, Klopps still not learnt what Utd will do, everyone knew apart from him and he couldnt get his team up for it.
Ontop of that, it unfortunately looks like lack of options upfront will hurt us as some predicted. Origi cant start for us, hes too reactive when you need to be proactive, reminds me of Benteke in that regard always caught on his heels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had no point to prove though?
We had 3 points to get.
Origi is a trundling cart. You get him up to speed in the right way and all is well. try and turn him round and its an issue.
posted on 21/10/19
I agree with OP. I expected Klopp to start Milner, who has been in good form, in place of Henderson or Wij. Milner hadn't had any football during the international break.
We missed Salah. This was an evidence why Salah is the most important player against "defensive teams". Henderson needs to be dropped against Spurs. He's been poor this season.
Any idea when Shaqiri is back?
Atkinson the referee made more mistakes than the players of both sides who themselves had poor game,
posted on 21/10/19
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 6 minutes ago
Only two things were worse than the Atkinson and that was us for 80mins and VAR.
Great point on the playing players that played full international fixture and had long trips. Looks a bit amateur now that you've pointed it out. Flip side is you can understand why Klopp stuck with the working formula though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes When you go away to old trafford you need a bit of work. And wijnaludm did well for 40minutes or so. He faded second half and didn't influence game at all. I was actually a little surprised klopp didn't try him as the no 10 after his efforts for holland recently. Even at least go left side of the 3.
Henderson and origi were rightly hooked but thats the issue. Yeah go for henderson away from home but you'd have got the same out of milner but with a little less wild crossing at nobody.
I still think 0-0 was a fair result but I must say we should have killed rojo and young. they were there for the taking and we only got one goal out of them. It just goes to show the issue we have in reserve i suppose.
posted on 21/10/19
Yeah Hendo hasn't exactly hit the heights he ended last season with. He's been hooked twice now though for poor performances. Klopp needs to have a word with him.
posted on 21/10/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/10/19
I think Keita will start midweek and depending on how he does will take the place of Henderson or Wijnaldum against Spurs. That game was calling out for a more attacking midfielder but you can understand Klopp's thoughts away against United.
posted on 21/10/19
Utd are not a great side at the moment but credit where due, they ran the channels to work the full back space, they defended really well for the majority of the game, they pressed us well and they fouled when they needed to. They were up for the battle, as they usually are against us. We weren't at our best but their performance was part of the reason.
As disappointing as it is not to beat this Utd team, ultimately we've taken a point away at a difficult ground and our results still say P9, W8, D1. I suspect every fan going would have taken that before the season started!
posted on 21/10/19
Did Ox really do much when he came on? The only thing of note that I can recall is when he had the chance to play someone in who was completely unmarked on the edge of their area in the last minute, and he completely over hit it and put it out for a goal kick.....
posted on 21/10/19
Spot on Term, other than a few long range shots and that easy misplaced pass he really didn't do much of note. Lallana was more impressive and even got his 2-3 Cryff turns in while keeping possession.
posted on 21/10/19
I hope we see more of Keita he looks like he is settling to the task now. Long overdue it has to be said.
posted on 21/10/19
Yesterdays game was not a must win. Yes some will argue its a must win given the point tallies City are capable of, but an away game against a Top 6 side is always tough I don't care who you are.
You have a 6 point cushion in which you can afford to draw your away fixtures to Arsenal, City and Spurs. Thats it really. This business of must win games in October is silly.
Although the performance was poor credit must be given to United who made it difficult in the first 45 minutes. What I did note was how nervous your players were and that must be a concern.Klopps record at Old Trafford is average and if you count the years were you were playing for pride and now where you are realistic challengers not much has changed.
Klopp got the team selection wrong and especially without Salah the safety approach doesnt do the team any favours.
posted on 21/10/19
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 49 minutes ago
Did Ox really do much when he came on? The only thing of note that I can recall is when he had the chance to play someone in who was completely unmarked on the edge of their area in the last minute, and he completely over hit it and put it out for a goal kick.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think sometimes a player can look lively and sharp without actually doing a huge amount in terms of end product. I think Ox looked good personally but take the point that he didn't do much to directly impact.
posted on 21/10/19
I don't think he looked overly sharp. there was one occasion he got caught out badly and his lack of games really showed.
I just think he's on a very very long road and i don't expect much from him at all. Ideally he'd play 10/12 games in cups and a few league games this season and try and get to a point where he is an option at least. Just stay fit and available.
I was more happy with keita who wanted to get involved and be the playmaker. hopefully he also stays fit.
posted on 21/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think Keita will start midweek and depending on how he does will take the place of Henderson or Wijnaldum against Spurs. That game was calling out for a more attacking midfielder but you can understand Klopp's thoughts away against United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt he'll get both games given where he is coming from fitness wise but I'd like to see him midweek for sure.
We badly need that option and if we need to go 4231 with an injury he is a real option at LW as well.
I'd love to see him stay fit anyway thats the most important step.
posted on 21/10/19
Fixtures:
Genk
Spurs
Arsenal
villa
genk
city
Genk away game first. lallana, ox and keita will all play some part. its a must win though.
Then arsenal. kids and those 3 again. Adrian, Lovren, gomez, ki, milner, keita, jones, brewster, elliott all to start imo. One of ox/lallana.
genk at home, easier game in theory. they will park bus. Pile in the creative players
Spurs game, villa game and city games are 9 points which are the ones where we need to get the return as well.
hopefully salzburg are virtually out of europe by the time we play them after.
posted on 21/10/19
If you guys scored a goal, and you saw for example, Nani fall over like Origi did.... you guys would be calling for him to fack off back to Portugal.
You know its the truth as well.
Origi dived, VAR made the correct decision.
If any of you fat bin dipping scousers play football, you would know that the type of touch that Lindleoff made on Origi would not impede you in any way shape or form, if anything he should've been booked for the pathetic fall.
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