I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 42 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, young players need to get opportunities at the right time and that can vary from player to player. The management must manage the young players.
If you look at KDB as an example, he left Chelsea in less than amicable circumstances. He wasn't getting the opportunities at a crucial time in his career and had to force a move because he knew he needed to play.
Chelsea squad was full of top players. KFB moved to Germany and was an instant hit. He was ready to start games for but being held back at Chelsea.
KDB went on to be the fifth foreigner to win the German writer's footballer of the year and also won the players player of the year and dragged his team to win the DFB cup. He then signed for Man City and is arguably the best player in the league today.
If KDB couldn't get in and had to force a move, what chance did any other youth have?
I'm still waiting for Josh McCeachran to break through.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost the best years? we didn't lock them in a cage and stop them playing FFS. Those that were loaned out for their development were at clubs playing in European top flight leagues, including the prem. Hardly rotting as you referred to or stifling. I honestly think apart from a few mistakes like DeBruyne that on the whole if these players around Europe who were getting good game time and learning their trade were going to make it, they'd had made it. I think alot has to do with the lacking mentality of some of those players touted as the next big thing, like Kakuta for example. Sometimes Winnie I honestly think you post some right old guff
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 31 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially true for Chalobah
We didn’t miss out on Cork necessarily but he has turned into a good, underrated player. One of the few players at Burnley last weekend who was good on the ball.
I think you’ve done Bertrand a disservice there. At one point he was voted best LB in PFA team of the year, I think in 13/14 season maybe. The season after Shaw left. He could definitely have done a job for us with all our LB issues since Cole. I actually think he should think himself unlucky no big team ever camein for him at Southampton
As OP said, Chalobah also had a nasty injury. Before that was one of Watford’s best players for short run of games and called upto England squad. Hope he gets his career back on track.
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 12 minutes ago
As OP said, Chalobah also had a nasty injury. Before that was one of Watford’s best players for short run of games and called upto England squad. Hope he gets his career back on track.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Ake is definitely doing well and worth keeping an eye on with this supposed buy back clause.
Solanke is an odd one. I’ve commented before on this, that both us and Liverpool didn’t manage him well, meaning he is now 23 next year with very little first team gametime for his age. Even at Bournemouth now, he would probably benefit most from a loan to Championship imo, mind he has also been starting for first time in his career since Vitesse this season albeit not soing much.
Other players of note:
Boga seems to have started ok this season. Two classic Boga goals in recent weeks at Sassoulo, one of them against Conte’s Inter. I believe we have a big back for him.
Bertrand Traore also doing pretty goo at Lyon as a whole since he went there but also seen a lot of reports he is a bit frustrating/inconsistent. But again, we have a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ with Lyon according to reports and he or Boga, if they continue impressing, would make sense as a cheap Willian/Pedro replacement over next 1-2 years.
For an older one, Jeffrey Bruma has carved a decent career for himself. Played for a few Bundesliga club’s and a semi regular Dutch international. Maybe not Chelsea standard but certainly a top 5 league player.
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 6 seconds ago
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liked both these players, had really high hopes for stich and the fact Hutchinson has a career after his early retirement is probably the best story as far as our academy players go.
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
88-89?
Did they come through with Ray Wilkins!!!
Chalobah is the perfect example of a player we could have made good use of rather than shelling out huge sums of money for players like Drinkwater.
I doubt he will ever be a top drawer player but still the type of player every squad needs who's happy to be part of the squad and come in when needed.
McEkkers is the one that still rankles with me. I always maintain that he was one of the most naturally gifted and skillful players I've seen come through the academy since Butch broke through in the mid 70s.
I personally don't think he disgraced himself when he was given a short run in the team, yet his reward was to be consigned back to training with the kids when the players he replaced returned to fitness/form. Then he was farmed out all round Championship sides for years, which by his own admission caused him depression.
Hopefully we've learned through our mistakes, although I don't think employing managers like Morinho did the youth teams any favours!
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 3 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost the best years?we didn't lock them in a cage and stop them playing FFS. Those that were loaned out for their development were at clubs playing in European top flight leagues, including the prem. Hardly rotting as you referred to or stifling. I honestly think apart from a few mistakes like DeBruyne that on the whole if these players around Europe who were getting good game time and learning their trade were going to make it, they'd had made it. I think alot has to do with the lacking mentality of some of those players touted as the next big thing, like Kakuta for example. Sometimes Winnie I honestly think you post some right old guff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, lost their best years.
It’s no wonder the players stay. They think they have a chance of achieving their dream and they are paid reasonably well.
Truth is, loaning players out for 3,4,5 years running does very little for their long term development and had they been afforded the chance to develop at clubs such as Spurs, Everton etc. then we may have seen some of them develop.
Where would Mount be if it weren’t for the transfer ban and Lampard’s appointment?
This really isn’t a difficult point to understand.
Ake comes from the Feyenoord academy...
comment by Yoda's big brother Hulk (U1250)
posted 34 minutes ago
Ake comes from the Feyenoord academy...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
De Bruyne didn't come from our academy either!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Many young players that played in Chelsea's academy were purchased from other academies.
Chelsea have gotten into trouble in the past for how they operated in the youth market, no? There was that Kakuta (or something like that) super kid for instance.
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 3 minutes ago
I agree with the general point you're making Winston. There are certainly some players whose development could have been handled better, however those are the ones who have shown initial talent to begin with. Whether the rest of the players we have on loan stay on loan is ultimately dependent on them. The club won't stand in their way if they want to leave permanently, however what perhaps goes unnoticed is that they will support them until they find a club which they'd like to settle with.
This is just one player's account, however it tells the other side of the story to the loan system
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/3168622/matej-delac-chelsea-longest-serving-player-on-the-life-of-an-eternal-loanee
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, will have a read - looks interesting.
I understand what you’re saying but most players have high levels of self belief and those loan players will surely believe they can make it at Chelsea.
Add in a decent wage and giving it up have a go at making it elsewhere looks unlikely.
Personally I think there should be some rules around this to prevent clubs from hoarding players.
It’s out of control right down to a young age now.
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posted on 3/11/19
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
posted on 3/11/19
De Bruyne
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 42 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, young players need to get opportunities at the right time and that can vary from player to player. The management must manage the young players.
If you look at KDB as an example, he left Chelsea in less than amicable circumstances. He wasn't getting the opportunities at a crucial time in his career and had to force a move because he knew he needed to play.
Chelsea squad was full of top players. KFB moved to Germany and was an instant hit. He was ready to start games for but being held back at Chelsea.
KDB went on to be the fifth foreigner to win the German writer's footballer of the year and also won the players player of the year and dragged his team to win the DFB cup. He then signed for Man City and is arguably the best player in the league today.
If KDB couldn't get in and had to force a move, what chance did any other youth have?
posted on 3/11/19
I'm still waiting for Josh McCeachran to break through.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost the best years? we didn't lock them in a cage and stop them playing FFS. Those that were loaned out for their development were at clubs playing in European top flight leagues, including the prem. Hardly rotting as you referred to or stifling. I honestly think apart from a few mistakes like DeBruyne that on the whole if these players around Europe who were getting good game time and learning their trade were going to make it, they'd had made it. I think alot has to do with the lacking mentality of some of those players touted as the next big thing, like Kakuta for example. Sometimes Winnie I honestly think you post some right old guff
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 31 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially true for Chalobah
posted on 3/11/19
We didn’t miss out on Cork necessarily but he has turned into a good, underrated player. One of the few players at Burnley last weekend who was good on the ball.
I think you’ve done Bertrand a disservice there. At one point he was voted best LB in PFA team of the year, I think in 13/14 season maybe. The season after Shaw left. He could definitely have done a job for us with all our LB issues since Cole. I actually think he should think himself unlucky no big team ever camein for him at Southampton
posted on 3/11/19
As OP said, Chalobah also had a nasty injury. Before that was one of Watford’s best players for short run of games and called upto England squad. Hope he gets his career back on track.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 12 minutes ago
As OP said, Chalobah also had a nasty injury. Before that was one of Watford’s best players for short run of games and called upto England squad. Hope he gets his career back on track.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 3/11/19
Ake is definitely doing well and worth keeping an eye on with this supposed buy back clause.
Solanke is an odd one. I’ve commented before on this, that both us and Liverpool didn’t manage him well, meaning he is now 23 next year with very little first team gametime for his age. Even at Bournemouth now, he would probably benefit most from a loan to Championship imo, mind he has also been starting for first time in his career since Vitesse this season albeit not soing much.
Other players of note:
Boga seems to have started ok this season. Two classic Boga goals in recent weeks at Sassoulo, one of them against Conte’s Inter. I believe we have a big back for him.
Bertrand Traore also doing pretty goo at Lyon as a whole since he went there but also seen a lot of reports he is a bit frustrating/inconsistent. But again, we have a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ with Lyon according to reports and he or Boga, if they continue impressing, would make sense as a cheap Willian/Pedro replacement over next 1-2 years.
For an older one, Jeffrey Bruma has carved a decent career for himself. Played for a few Bundesliga club’s and a semi regular Dutch international. Maybe not Chelsea standard but certainly a top 5 league player.
posted on 3/11/19
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 6 seconds ago
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liked both these players, had really high hopes for stich and the fact Hutchinson has a career after his early retirement is probably the best story as far as our academy players go.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
And going back even further, Miroslav Stoch has probably had the best career of all our old gen (88-89) youth players, if slightly left field.
Sam Hutchinson is still playing at a decent level in the Chanpionship as a DM, good to see after all his injury issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
88-89?
Did they come through with Ray Wilkins!!!
posted on 3/11/19
Chalobah is the perfect example of a player we could have made good use of rather than shelling out huge sums of money for players like Drinkwater.
I doubt he will ever be a top drawer player but still the type of player every squad needs who's happy to be part of the squad and come in when needed.
McEkkers is the one that still rankles with me. I always maintain that he was one of the most naturally gifted and skillful players I've seen come through the academy since Butch broke through in the mid 70s.
I personally don't think he disgraced himself when he was given a short run in the team, yet his reward was to be consigned back to training with the kids when the players he replaced returned to fitness/form. Then he was farmed out all round Championship sides for years, which by his own admission caused him depression.
Hopefully we've learned through our mistakes, although I don't think employing managers like Morinho did the youth teams any favours!
posted on 3/11/19
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 3 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
I think the point is that we don’t know because Chelsea let those players rot out on loan.
Your youth team has been one of the best for many years - the idea that not a single player in those years was capable of becoming a first team regular is far fetched to say the least.
I wonder how many top quality players have been stuck with average football careers because of how top clubs have treated them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how many of those have forged stellar careers elsewhere because at the end of the day, if the quality is there, then they'd have made it elsewhere? Too easy to blame cfc for letting players rot. Think it through Winnie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if they’ve lost the key years of development being stifled by Chelsea, they won’t go on to bigger and better things will they?
Think it through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost the best years?we didn't lock them in a cage and stop them playing FFS. Those that were loaned out for their development were at clubs playing in European top flight leagues, including the prem. Hardly rotting as you referred to or stifling. I honestly think apart from a few mistakes like DeBruyne that on the whole if these players around Europe who were getting good game time and learning their trade were going to make it, they'd had made it. I think alot has to do with the lacking mentality of some of those players touted as the next big thing, like Kakuta for example. Sometimes Winnie I honestly think you post some right old guff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, lost their best years.
It’s no wonder the players stay. They think they have a chance of achieving their dream and they are paid reasonably well.
Truth is, loaning players out for 3,4,5 years running does very little for their long term development and had they been afforded the chance to develop at clubs such as Spurs, Everton etc. then we may have seen some of them develop.
Where would Mount be if it weren’t for the transfer ban and Lampard’s appointment?
This really isn’t a difficult point to understand.
posted on 3/11/19
Ake comes from the Feyenoord academy...
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Yoda's big brother Hulk (U1250)
posted 34 minutes ago
Ake comes from the Feyenoord academy...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
De Bruyne didn't come from our academy either!
posted on 3/11/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/19
Many young players that played in Chelsea's academy were purchased from other academies.
Chelsea have gotten into trouble in the past for how they operated in the youth market, no? There was that Kakuta (or something like that) super kid for instance.
posted on 3/11/19
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 3 minutes ago
I agree with the general point you're making Winston. There are certainly some players whose development could have been handled better, however those are the ones who have shown initial talent to begin with. Whether the rest of the players we have on loan stay on loan is ultimately dependent on them. The club won't stand in their way if they want to leave permanently, however what perhaps goes unnoticed is that they will support them until they find a club which they'd like to settle with.
This is just one player's account, however it tells the other side of the story to the loan system
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/3168622/matej-delac-chelsea-longest-serving-player-on-the-life-of-an-eternal-loanee
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, will have a read - looks interesting.
I understand what you’re saying but most players have high levels of self belief and those loan players will surely believe they can make it at Chelsea.
Add in a decent wage and giving it up have a go at making it elsewhere looks unlikely.
Personally I think there should be some rules around this to prevent clubs from hoarding players.
It’s out of control right down to a young age now.
Page 1 of 1