comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 hours, 38 minutes ago
Well, the devil's in the detail of the accounts, I'm sure.
Jonathan Wilson flags an interesting parallel with Spurs relating to the absolute necessity to continually refresh a squad that is playing the "high-pressing" style that Poch adapted from Bielsa.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/nov/20/mauricio-pochettino-spurs-jose-mourinho-gamble-jonathan-wilson
Levy may well have blown it big time by appointing Mourinho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that Spurs’ pressing has dropped so dramatically!
Maybe that’s why Bielsa said he didn’t think our squad from last season could repeat it again this season - or words to that effect?
Seems that Pablo has suffered, Klich has suffered yet at the moment we seem to have enough players to carry on the press. Costa, Shackleton, Roberts, Bamford, Dallas, Alioski, Phillips, White - all hard workers who press really well.
However Poch has had four years of it and maybe the lack of signings/players still capable has taken its toll.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 16 minutes ago
Radz sold his major business didn't he ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part of it I think.
Oh well, I thought I asked a reasonable question but it seems no body knows or as usual cant be assed answering my question!..
So, is someone allowed to buy a property and not charge a rent?..
At the end of the year these businesses have to open their books and show what they have and what they've spent, surely they aren't allowed to let a property without charging a rent!..
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 51 seconds ago
Yet it’s been let out free for 33 monthsz
We’re on thin ice complaining about other clubs stadia deals when our own is not straightforward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly who’s complaining about other clubs deals (other than those selling at inflated costs to circumnavigation FFP)?
Secondly we don’t know the ins and outs of why we are suddenly going to charge rent. Maybe they have had tax advice? Maybe they are in breach of some rule?
Bottom line is - according to some - that Greenfield own the ground, not Leeds United (which was also bought through Greenfield?). If that’s so then maybe one has to charge the other rent and pay applicable tax on the income? The other then offsets it as an expense?
Please notice the question marks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People are complaining about stadia purchases for avoiding ffp.
Our owner has complained about ffp and yet used mechanism to purchase ground and then let club play there at no cost, which impacts ffp compliance, not sure how you can’t see that.
I would not be surprised at all if this deal comes under scrutiny.
I believe that the key is in the timing.
AR gives himself 5 years to get promoted.
He then gives 33 month window on rent in hope we’re promoted by then so that he ca. Charge much higher rent than previously but that won’t get seen by outside world until next accounts are out and won’t be that noticeable as we should be in prem and that can be used as excuse for higher admin costs. If we’re still in championship then it’s far harder to charge higher rent, increase admin costs and explain it away.
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 17 minutes ago
Oh well, I thought I asked a reasonable question but it seems no body knows or as usual cant be assed answering my question!..
So, is someone allowed to buy a property and not charge a rent?..
At the end of the year these businesses have to open their books and show what they have and what they've spent, surely they aren't allowed to let a property without charging a rent!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly in the real world I understand you have to charge the market rate for rentals to family and friends. The tax man always wants his pennies worth.
Had the ground been bought under one banner then rent would not come into consideration - however I can see why Radz has kept the football club and the ground separate. It makes good business sense and keeps both entities separate and not liable for the others debts.
It also gives him the flexibility to sell one without the other should the need arise.
I could be wrong there and will stand corrected if anyone knows better.
So your trying to think of any possible excuse for rad charging rent.
It’s simple, he making money off the club.
Don’t butter it up any other way. Don’t make excuses for him.
It’s that simple, it’s his right too do that but don’t make excuses
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Going back to the rental issue. I know with domestic rentals you are bound by tax reasons to charge a fair rent. Letting it out under the market value, for example, is frowned upon by the inland revenue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I lived away in Portugal for a few years, I deliberately rented my house back in Wakefield out for £50 less per month than the local equivalent, to try to ensure consistent occupancy. Did it through a reputable estate agent in the area and no one raised a red flag on this - I had no idea HMRC would be bothered. It was purely to make it a more attractive option when compared to others (and it worked!).
You live and learn …..
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
Stoopo!.......pointing to a case off one business owning a property and having to gain on it, like you say taxes, they'll be paying them and a rent free owned property means a minus when they open their books to the authorities!..
VOF, if you'd have done it rent free you would have had no problems with consistent occupancy!..
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 21 minutes ago
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I did sit trying to figure why HMRC would be bothered at all.
If I was charging £1000 per month, but only declaring £800 on my tax return each year, then they'd quite rightly have issue. But me undervaluing and receiving less was a personal business choice and not impacting the tax payer i'd have thought?
I do quite a bit of tax work and with HMRC, so know they can work in mysterious ways at times.... so didn't want to completely dismiss the thought ….
Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!
Put yourself in EFL’s shoes:
Club have ‘effectively’ bought ground back and paid nothing.
Club are being charged nothing for nearly 3 years, to play in one of biggest grounds in England andvreap the rewards of high attendances.
Is that fair compared to other clubs?
Is this fair according to FFP?
"Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!"
That you didn't say, only you wanted consistent occupancy!.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 33 seconds ago
Put yourself in EFL’s shoes:
Club have ‘effectively’ bought ground back and paid nothing.
Club are being charged nothing for nearly 3 years, to play in one of biggest grounds in England andvreap the rewards of high attendances.
Is that fair compared to other clubs?
Is this fair according to FFP?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't effect FFP. Deferred rent is accounted for over the term of the lease.
There'll be no P&L benefit, just a cash flow benefit.
You can't conflate this with Wednesday, Derby, Villa.
It’s not deferred rent it’s rent free.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 18 seconds ago
It’s not deferred rent it’s rent free.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter what you call it, it's accounted for in the same way. It's the total cost of the lease that is relevant and is accounted for on a pro-rata basis.
It doesn't effect FFP.
Nobody knows that the club will be charged rent.
It will be wrong for the club to be paying to rent the ground. There's no disputing that.
But no one knows that we will be next year. And until there is evidence that says we will be, surely we have better things to do than complain about something that we don't know will happen.
Most of us anyway....
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 5 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 21 minutes ago
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I did sit trying to figure why HMRC would be bothered at all.
If I was charging £1000 per month, but only declaring £800 on my tax return each year, then they'd quite rightly have issue. But me undervaluing and receiving less was a personal business choice and not impacting the tax payer i'd have thought?
I do quite a bit of tax work and with HMRC, so know they can work in mysterious ways at times.... so didn't want to completely dismiss the thought ….
Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They aren’t interested in those who rent out a bit cheaper to achieve occupancy - but try letting it go your family for 50% of the true market value and see where that gets you if they get wind of it.
It could be the same with Leeds. Not charging rent might be seen as circumnavigating tax.
Explains the tax and allowance implications for letting under market value.
https://www.property-tax-portal.co.uk/taxarticle157.shtml
You seriously haven’t read that have you stoopo.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
It clearly states your talking utter nonsense
And just to make it clear for you.
You charge any rent at all. HM can’t do anything and don’t want to anything.
It’s clear.
What you can’t do is charge no rent, then try to claiming the expenses against. Which is pretty obvious, it’s fraud.
So just think about what your saying, instead of spreading wild things about, HM will hunt you down if your don’t charge market value.
You can charge WHAT you like 👍
Well... this thread took a turn...
Sign in if you want to comment
New contract for Pablo.....
Page 5 of 5
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 hours, 38 minutes ago
Well, the devil's in the detail of the accounts, I'm sure.
Jonathan Wilson flags an interesting parallel with Spurs relating to the absolute necessity to continually refresh a squad that is playing the "high-pressing" style that Poch adapted from Bielsa.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/nov/20/mauricio-pochettino-spurs-jose-mourinho-gamble-jonathan-wilson
Levy may well have blown it big time by appointing Mourinho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that Spurs’ pressing has dropped so dramatically!
Maybe that’s why Bielsa said he didn’t think our squad from last season could repeat it again this season - or words to that effect?
Seems that Pablo has suffered, Klich has suffered yet at the moment we seem to have enough players to carry on the press. Costa, Shackleton, Roberts, Bamford, Dallas, Alioski, Phillips, White - all hard workers who press really well.
However Poch has had four years of it and maybe the lack of signings/players still capable has taken its toll.
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 16 minutes ago
Radz sold his major business didn't he ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part of it I think.
posted on 21/11/19
Oh well, I thought I asked a reasonable question but it seems no body knows or as usual cant be assed answering my question!..
So, is someone allowed to buy a property and not charge a rent?..
At the end of the year these businesses have to open their books and show what they have and what they've spent, surely they aren't allowed to let a property without charging a rent!..
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 51 seconds ago
Yet it’s been let out free for 33 monthsz
We’re on thin ice complaining about other clubs stadia deals when our own is not straightforward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly who’s complaining about other clubs deals (other than those selling at inflated costs to circumnavigation FFP)?
Secondly we don’t know the ins and outs of why we are suddenly going to charge rent. Maybe they have had tax advice? Maybe they are in breach of some rule?
Bottom line is - according to some - that Greenfield own the ground, not Leeds United (which was also bought through Greenfield?). If that’s so then maybe one has to charge the other rent and pay applicable tax on the income? The other then offsets it as an expense?
Please notice the question marks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People are complaining about stadia purchases for avoiding ffp.
Our owner has complained about ffp and yet used mechanism to purchase ground and then let club play there at no cost, which impacts ffp compliance, not sure how you can’t see that.
I would not be surprised at all if this deal comes under scrutiny.
I believe that the key is in the timing.
AR gives himself 5 years to get promoted.
He then gives 33 month window on rent in hope we’re promoted by then so that he ca. Charge much higher rent than previously but that won’t get seen by outside world until next accounts are out and won’t be that noticeable as we should be in prem and that can be used as excuse for higher admin costs. If we’re still in championship then it’s far harder to charge higher rent, increase admin costs and explain it away.
posted on 21/11/19
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 17 minutes ago
Oh well, I thought I asked a reasonable question but it seems no body knows or as usual cant be assed answering my question!..
So, is someone allowed to buy a property and not charge a rent?..
At the end of the year these businesses have to open their books and show what they have and what they've spent, surely they aren't allowed to let a property without charging a rent!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly in the real world I understand you have to charge the market rate for rentals to family and friends. The tax man always wants his pennies worth.
Had the ground been bought under one banner then rent would not come into consideration - however I can see why Radz has kept the football club and the ground separate. It makes good business sense and keeps both entities separate and not liable for the others debts.
It also gives him the flexibility to sell one without the other should the need arise.
I could be wrong there and will stand corrected if anyone knows better.
posted on 21/11/19
So your trying to think of any possible excuse for rad charging rent.
It’s simple, he making money off the club.
Don’t butter it up any other way. Don’t make excuses for him.
It’s that simple, it’s his right too do that but don’t make excuses
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Going back to the rental issue. I know with domestic rentals you are bound by tax reasons to charge a fair rent. Letting it out under the market value, for example, is frowned upon by the inland revenue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I lived away in Portugal for a few years, I deliberately rented my house back in Wakefield out for £50 less per month than the local equivalent, to try to ensure consistent occupancy. Did it through a reputable estate agent in the area and no one raised a red flag on this - I had no idea HMRC would be bothered. It was purely to make it a more attractive option when compared to others (and it worked!).
You live and learn …..
posted on 21/11/19
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
posted on 21/11/19
Stoopo!.......pointing to a case off one business owning a property and having to gain on it, like you say taxes, they'll be paying them and a rent free owned property means a minus when they open their books to the authorities!..
VOF, if you'd have done it rent free you would have had no problems with consistent occupancy!..
posted on 21/11/19
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 21 minutes ago
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I did sit trying to figure why HMRC would be bothered at all.
If I was charging £1000 per month, but only declaring £800 on my tax return each year, then they'd quite rightly have issue. But me undervaluing and receiving less was a personal business choice and not impacting the tax payer i'd have thought?
I do quite a bit of tax work and with HMRC, so know they can work in mysterious ways at times.... so didn't want to completely dismiss the thought ….
Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!
posted on 21/11/19
Put yourself in EFL’s shoes:
Club have ‘effectively’ bought ground back and paid nothing.
Club are being charged nothing for nearly 3 years, to play in one of biggest grounds in England andvreap the rewards of high attendances.
Is that fair compared to other clubs?
Is this fair according to FFP?
posted on 21/11/19
"Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!"
That you didn't say, only you wanted consistent occupancy!.
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 33 seconds ago
Put yourself in EFL’s shoes:
Club have ‘effectively’ bought ground back and paid nothing.
Club are being charged nothing for nearly 3 years, to play in one of biggest grounds in England andvreap the rewards of high attendances.
Is that fair compared to other clubs?
Is this fair according to FFP?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't effect FFP. Deferred rent is accounted for over the term of the lease.
There'll be no P&L benefit, just a cash flow benefit.
You can't conflate this with Wednesday, Derby, Villa.
posted on 21/11/19
It’s not deferred rent it’s rent free.
posted on 21/11/19
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 18 seconds ago
It’s not deferred rent it’s rent free.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter what you call it, it's accounted for in the same way. It's the total cost of the lease that is relevant and is accounted for on a pro-rata basis.
It doesn't effect FFP.
posted on 21/11/19
Nobody knows that the club will be charged rent.
It will be wrong for the club to be paying to rent the ground. There's no disputing that.
But no one knows that we will be next year. And until there is evidence that says we will be, surely we have better things to do than complain about something that we don't know will happen.
Most of us anyway....
posted on 21/11/19
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 5 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 21 minutes ago
Vof
Stoopo talking nonsense
What you did was the exact right thing, they wouldn’t even bother you about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I did sit trying to figure why HMRC would be bothered at all.
If I was charging £1000 per month, but only declaring £800 on my tax return each year, then they'd quite rightly have issue. But me undervaluing and receiving less was a personal business choice and not impacting the tax payer i'd have thought?
I do quite a bit of tax work and with HMRC, so know they can work in mysterious ways at times.... so didn't want to completely dismiss the thought ….
Germany - rent free would = scrotes … !!!! I wanted the house back in more or less one piece !!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They aren’t interested in those who rent out a bit cheaper to achieve occupancy - but try letting it go your family for 50% of the true market value and see where that gets you if they get wind of it.
It could be the same with Leeds. Not charging rent might be seen as circumnavigating tax.
posted on 21/11/19
Explains the tax and allowance implications for letting under market value.
https://www.property-tax-portal.co.uk/taxarticle157.shtml
posted on 21/11/19
You seriously haven’t read that have you stoopo.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
It clearly states your talking utter nonsense
posted on 21/11/19
And just to make it clear for you.
You charge any rent at all. HM can’t do anything and don’t want to anything.
It’s clear.
What you can’t do is charge no rent, then try to claiming the expenses against. Which is pretty obvious, it’s fraud.
So just think about what your saying, instead of spreading wild things about, HM will hunt you down if your don’t charge market value.
You can charge WHAT you like 👍
posted on 21/11/19
Well... this thread took a turn...
posted on 22/11/19
Hmmm
Page 5 of 5