comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 1 minute ago
I think that’s it Winston, the debate/discussion isn’t which side is better, it’s going player by player and comparing those individuals as a fun little excercise.
So i don’t really see why people are saying you can’t compare them, of course you can compare players to other players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you really compare TAA, who is looking like an excellent player but has only been on the scene for a few seasons, with Gary Neville, who did it for club and country over such a long period?
I struggle with that.
TAA has the attributes to be better, absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want him in my team over Neville.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
felt Carras team was extremely generous to Utd, still funny how Keane didnt understand or reason still wanted a full Utd 11.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
Quite enjoyed the humility Keane showed when Carragher asked him if he's the best PL midfielder of all time.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they were comparing the 99 utd season to this seasons team, i thought carra mentioned that to Roy too?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 1 minute ago
I think that’s it Winston, the debate/discussion isn’t which side is better, it’s going player by player and comparing those individuals as a fun little excercise.
So i don’t really see why people are saying you can’t compare them, of course you can compare players to other players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you really compare TAA, who is looking like an excellent player but has only been on the scene for a few seasons, with Gary Neville, who did it for club and country over such a long period?
I struggle with that.
TAA has the attributes to be better, absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want him in my team over Neville.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can.
Just because you pick a united player doesn’t mean you can’t compare the two, if your preference is Neville that’s fine. I think TAA is currently the best right back in the world and i don’t think Neville ever hit those heights so personally I’d have taa but it’s really irrelevant.
You can absolutely compare players. Can you not compare spurs players with Liverpool’s because they’ve not won a trophy and we’ve won like 3 or something in the past 12 months? No of course you can compare son and Salah. It’s just a ridiculous notion that because one side won a bunch of trophies you can’t compare the individual players in that side to another one, as if it makes them untouchable?
Inbefore (U20589)
Yep, and the bulk of that side achieved what I just wrote.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Tiddles (U17634)
I can only suggest you re-read what I wrote.
The point is you're comparing a player who has hit incredible heights in the short term with a player who hit great heights consistently over the long term.
I didn't say you can't compare them - I said I struggle with it, so perhaps learn to read properly before you call it ridiculous.
TAA right now is better than Gary Neville at his peak. Offers far more offensively and is nearly as good defensively.
I also back TAA to deliver the same consistency over the same period that GNev did. So comfortable TAA will go down as the better player.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn’t we consider the fact that this side has won 103 out of 105 points.
It’s a record I’ve never seen before. If you throw in the European Cup and a PL title and you really are looking at a machine.
United 99 were superb but clearly beatable and dare I say it, incredibly fortunate to win the FA/CL
I get why Carragher brought up the point about the points tallies but it's a bit unfair on United. They're different eras. Back in the 90's you rarely needed to get over 80 points to win a title. City have raised the bar the last few years and that itself has in my opinion led to Liverpool being as good as they are themselves. Could that United team have achieved more points if they were pushed? Of course they could and they proved it the following season when they got 91 points.
Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
Of course we consider it - but to compare it against United's league record in 99, I think you're in danger of narrowing the debate into stats that don't fit.
Incredibly fortunate? I think you'll find any team winning trophies requires fortune.
If you want to go down that road then this will be a very short debate.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
Tiddles (U17634)
I can only suggest you re-read what I wrote.
The point is you're comparing a player who has hit incredible heights in the short term with a player who hit great heights consistently over the long term.
I didn't say you can't compare them - I said I struggle with it, so perhaps learn to read properly before you call it ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right, you said you struggle to compare them, i think that’s ridiculous. Not sure why that’s got you in a twist but okay.
One player was a solid 7/10 player week in week out for his whole career, that’s great. Genuinely that is, you need those players. The other has been performing to a world class level for two seasons now and is only 21. I don’t see why that’s such a struggle to look at and compare.
Ronaldinho didn’t have the longevity of a lot of other greats, i don’t think that detracts from just how great he was or should be used as a stick to beat him with personally as at his peak he was as good as anything out.
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
He had 8 assists and 2 goals in our CL run, amazing stats for the 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like 8 assists in the CL in any era is pretty incredible.
Beckham gets overlooked a lot but he was absolute class
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we didn't lose 1 game against barca, bayern, inter or juve. You have already lost 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. We lost 4 games all season, 3 in the PL and one in the league Cup.
Liverpool have lost 4 already.
Tiddles (U17634)
I'm not in a twist - if you think it's ridiculous then maybe reasoned debate isn't for you.
You clearly have trouble understanding my point, so perhaps best to leave it there. You're arguing something I've already agreed with.
That said, to call Neville a solid 7/10 is a gross understatement of his abilities - an absurd comment.
Watch some of Euro 96 back... a superb right back, probably England's best ever up to this point.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
He had 8 assists and 2 goals in our CL run, amazing stats for the 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like 8 assists in the CL in any era is pretty incredible.
Beckham gets overlooked a lot but he was absolute class
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we didn't lose 1 game against barca, bayern, inter or juve. You have already lost 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. We lost 4 games all season, 3 in the PL and one in the league Cup.
Liverpool have lost 4 already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could still win more trophies this season than United have ever managed.
Wondering if VAR would have helped United achieve more points/wins back then.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
And we didn’t lose a single game in any comp in that second half of the season. And came up against some very very good sides
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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Keane vs Carragher: Combined XI
Page 2 of 20
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posted on 19/2/20
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 1 minute ago
I think that’s it Winston, the debate/discussion isn’t which side is better, it’s going player by player and comparing those individuals as a fun little excercise.
So i don’t really see why people are saying you can’t compare them, of course you can compare players to other players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you really compare TAA, who is looking like an excellent player but has only been on the scene for a few seasons, with Gary Neville, who did it for club and country over such a long period?
I struggle with that.
TAA has the attributes to be better, absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want him in my team over Neville.
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/20
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
posted on 19/2/20
felt Carras team was extremely generous to Utd, still funny how Keane didnt understand or reason still wanted a full Utd 11.
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
posted on 19/2/20
Quite enjoyed the humility Keane showed when Carragher asked him if he's the best PL midfielder of all time.
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they were comparing the 99 utd season to this seasons team, i thought carra mentioned that to Roy too?
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 1 minute ago
I think that’s it Winston, the debate/discussion isn’t which side is better, it’s going player by player and comparing those individuals as a fun little excercise.
So i don’t really see why people are saying you can’t compare them, of course you can compare players to other players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you really compare TAA, who is looking like an excellent player but has only been on the scene for a few seasons, with Gary Neville, who did it for club and country over such a long period?
I struggle with that.
TAA has the attributes to be better, absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want him in my team over Neville.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can.
Just because you pick a united player doesn’t mean you can’t compare the two, if your preference is Neville that’s fine. I think TAA is currently the best right back in the world and i don’t think Neville ever hit those heights so personally I’d have taa but it’s really irrelevant.
You can absolutely compare players. Can you not compare spurs players with Liverpool’s because they’ve not won a trophy and we’ve won like 3 or something in the past 12 months? No of course you can compare son and Salah. It’s just a ridiculous notion that because one side won a bunch of trophies you can’t compare the individual players in that side to another one, as if it makes them untouchable?
posted on 19/2/20
Inbefore (U20589)
Yep, and the bulk of that side achieved what I just wrote.
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/20
Tiddles (U17634)
I can only suggest you re-read what I wrote.
The point is you're comparing a player who has hit incredible heights in the short term with a player who hit great heights consistently over the long term.
I didn't say you can't compare them - I said I struggle with it, so perhaps learn to read properly before you call it ridiculous.
posted on 19/2/20
TAA right now is better than Gary Neville at his peak. Offers far more offensively and is nearly as good defensively.
I also back TAA to deliver the same consistency over the same period that GNev did. So comfortable TAA will go down as the better player.
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 minutes ago
People have rose tinted spectacles.
United had a great side in 98/99 no doubt. They actually failed to win 16 league games. You’d have to go back 3 seasons to find the last 16 league games that Liverpool failed to win.
When you go 103 points out of 105 with a PL title and a CL then you really have to sit up and take notice.
If you push me on it, I’d say that the OPs XI Is a good stab at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stats, stats and more stats.
We could argue all day about that particular stat and what it means.
Fact is, you have a side here who won the PL three years on the trot and also won a treble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn’t we consider the fact that this side has won 103 out of 105 points.
It’s a record I’ve never seen before. If you throw in the European Cup and a PL title and you really are looking at a machine.
United 99 were superb but clearly beatable and dare I say it, incredibly fortunate to win the FA/CL
posted on 19/2/20
I get why Carragher brought up the point about the points tallies but it's a bit unfair on United. They're different eras. Back in the 90's you rarely needed to get over 80 points to win a title. City have raised the bar the last few years and that itself has in my opinion led to Liverpool being as good as they are themselves. Could that United team have achieved more points if they were pushed? Of course they could and they proved it the following season when they got 91 points.
posted on 19/2/20
Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
Of course we consider it - but to compare it against United's league record in 99, I think you're in danger of narrowing the debate into stats that don't fit.
Incredibly fortunate? I think you'll find any team winning trophies requires fortune.
If you want to go down that road then this will be a very short debate.
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
Tiddles (U17634)
I can only suggest you re-read what I wrote.
The point is you're comparing a player who has hit incredible heights in the short term with a player who hit great heights consistently over the long term.
I didn't say you can't compare them - I said I struggle with it, so perhaps learn to read properly before you call it ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right, you said you struggle to compare them, i think that’s ridiculous. Not sure why that’s got you in a twist but okay.
One player was a solid 7/10 player week in week out for his whole career, that’s great. Genuinely that is, you need those players. The other has been performing to a world class level for two seasons now and is only 21. I don’t see why that’s such a struggle to look at and compare.
Ronaldinho didn’t have the longevity of a lot of other greats, i don’t think that detracts from just how great he was or should be used as a stick to beat him with personally as at his peak he was as good as anything out.
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
He had 8 assists and 2 goals in our CL run, amazing stats for the 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like 8 assists in the CL in any era is pretty incredible.
Beckham gets overlooked a lot but he was absolute class
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we didn't lose 1 game against barca, bayern, inter or juve. You have already lost 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. We lost 4 games all season, 3 in the PL and one in the league Cup.
Liverpool have lost 4 already.
posted on 19/2/20
Tiddles (U17634)
I'm not in a twist - if you think it's ridiculous then maybe reasoned debate isn't for you.
You clearly have trouble understanding my point, so perhaps best to leave it there. You're arguing something I've already agreed with.
That said, to call Neville a solid 7/10 is a gross understatement of his abilities - an absurd comment.
Watch some of Euro 96 back... a superb right back, probably England's best ever up to this point.
posted on 19/2/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
He had 8 assists and 2 goals in our CL run, amazing stats for the 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like 8 assists in the CL in any era is pretty incredible.
Beckham gets overlooked a lot but he was absolute class
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we didn't lose 1 game against barca, bayern, inter or juve. You have already lost 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. We lost 4 games all season, 3 in the PL and one in the league Cup.
Liverpool have lost 4 already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could still win more trophies this season than United have ever managed.
posted on 19/2/20
Wondering if VAR would have helped United achieve more points/wins back then.
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/20
And we didn’t lose a single game in any comp in that second half of the season. And came up against some very very good sides
posted on 19/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Page 2 of 20
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