We lack aggression massively.
We used to be a force to be reckoned with, hope we can get back to the standards we used to set
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
.....
I have forgot more about football tactics than you will ever understand, Nobb.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
.....
I have forgot more about football tactics than you will ever understand, Nobb.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
Please indulge me. Name the backline of United against Brugge.
"If you think it was then you have no business talking about football."
.......
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Dalot and Williams who are in fact..
FULLBACKS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Who were not playing or set up to play as full backs. This isn’t hard to understand. Even for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool has two of the best wingbacks in the world. Yet I don't say that the Reds start with a 2-4-6/2-6-3 formation. It's a 4-3-3. Wingbacks are offensive minded, but they slot into the fullback position when they need to defend. I understand it hurts your pride to see the mighty Maguire needing 2 other cb's to be solid against stronger teams, but there is no need for shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You think Liverpool play with wing backs, Robb?
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 1 minute ago
We lack aggression massively.
We used to be a force to be reckoned with, hope we can get back to the standards we used to set
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First there needs to be an idea how to play. A signature. It depends on which players you have and can attract to make the style of play work. Also a backone of specialists is needed in every line. The goal is covered with de Gea.
In the defense you still lack a leader. He doesn't have to be the best, but it would be good to have someone who can compensate for Maguire's weaknesses. Bailly showed glimpses of great play, but suffers from being injury prone. A CB should be able to play a lot of matches and work on a good understanding with his cb partner. Is he the man to go forward with Maguire? Doubtful. Wan-Bissaka is the best defensive fullback in the league, if only he could develop his attacking prowess more. But the big question is how you want to play? Focus on attack through wings with dribbles or crosses? Or attack towards the Wings with passes from the middle or go through the middle with runners and low crosses. Maybe individual skill?
Speaking of which, in the midfield you have Bruno Fernandes who is a specialist and should be played as >attacking< midfielder as much as possible. He can supply good through balls, long shots and key passes. To convert you need runners or players who can make space for themselves. Much like City does, they confuse the opponent by committing many players running into the box, freeing space for the key pass. This means football intelligence and United best bet is Bruno. But you need more than one. Chemistry is important. A Pogba-Bruno combination can be magical. But 1. Will he stay and 2. he's injuryprone, so not something you can rely on. Lastly, you need to identify the midfielders best positions. I still don't know what Fred is for instance. Matic is doing okish in general, but he's more of a squadplayer if you endeavour the quality United once had.
In attack Martial is still a questionmark. His injuries and inconsistency is a problem. Rashford has been a positive and I'd wait to see if he can elevate his game with better players around him, that gel. He's intelligent enough. How many chances does Lingard need and to prove what? Is he even good enough? Honestly no. You could do with a Son-like kind of player. A dribbler, trickster, but it depends on your front three. What will their interaction look like to pose threat? A false 9 like Firmino? A central strong striker who can hold up the ball and is good with headers like Lukaku? Such a player will need service. Bruno alone will probably not be enough so you'll need wingbacks who can put in good crosses. Or you can go for overloads where low crosses and fast, low passing and movement to create space and a shot oppertunity. This will benefit Bruno the most. To be able to do this, United needs to sacrifice a CB and play with two. Maguire's partner should preferably be a speedy one.
This kind of style is more risky and a few more investments are needed to make this work. I think Mata can fill in a role in this since he's intelligent. McTominay can also be key since you'll need a defensive minded midfielder who's good in the air to negate the oppositions high balls, especially during counter attacks so that the defense doesn't need to commit and leave space behind (like you did against Liverpool when Lovren lost his header against Lukaku and United scored)
There is not much new. Weren't our 1966 World Cup winners called the wingless wonders?
Quelle surprise. It is because we had no wingers, but at least one attacking fullback, Cohen.
The players available dictate the best formation.
You should listen to VC, he gets most things right imo. Although we do differ occasionally.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 minutes ago
You should listen to VC, he gets most things right imo. Although we do differ occasionally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He got it wrong this time, but I'm sure he is right sometimes. Be it with luck or otherwise.
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
.....
That didn’t look good on you.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
.....
That didn’t look good on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The world, according to VC 🤔
He got it wrong this time
....
No I didn’t. Which is why you can’t argue it without looking ridiculous.
Once you understand that Dalot and Williams were not playing as fullbacks you will be able to move on.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The difference is your defense is now a cohesive unit where as ours isn’t dissimilar to where you guys were a few years back.
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
He got it wrong this time
....
No I didn’t. Which is why you can’t argue it without looking ridiculous.
Once you understand that Dalot and Williams were not playing as fullbacks you will be able to move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You were wrong. I understand the difference between fullbacks and wingbacks. Liverpool also plays with wingbacks, yet I concede that Liverpool plays in a FOUR-three-three. You can say how Dalot and Williams are wingbacks, but you can't deny that they resort back to fullback positions when they need to defend, as do Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Also, Wan-Bissaka played as a 'wingback' in a back 5.
As you can see from my long post on United, I've seen a lot of United and also saw a clear back 5 on numerous occasions. Against certain opposition they played a back 4 with various results. United are still searching for an identity and wish them well in doing so, but you're only kidding yourself if you believe that United never plays in a back 5.
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the question I asked... do Liverpool play with wing backs?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
The difference is your defense is now a cohesive unit where as ours isn’t dissimilar to where you guys were a few years back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter where we were and where we are now. The simple fact is that United is searching for an efficient way to win games with the players they have and I don't begrudge them for it. If a system works, it works. Your wingbacks don't contribute that much in attack, due to the combination of execution and offensive impuls. But you are also 'hampered' with 3 cb's in the back. One could have been a midfielder that adds something on a more advanced position. Again, this isn't a dig, just observation.
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their fullbacks are in a completely different league to ours going forward to ours. Our guys are great defenders but aren’t very good going forward, theirs are superb. Fine as long as we don’t expect shaw and awb to be as effective as taa and Robertson in attack. They just don’t have the ability, it’s not really their gane.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy Manticore (U2958)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the question I asked... do Liverpool play with wing backs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, yes.
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their fullbacks are in a completely different league to ours going forward to ours. Our guys are great defenders but aren’t very good going forward, theirs are superb. Fine as long as we don’t expect shaw and awb to be as effective as taa and Robertson in attack. They just don’t have the ability, it’s not really their gane.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, defensively, they can both be suspect. Robertson being better than defensively, especially since Alexander-Arnold sometimes defends on the wrong side and like Robertson gets caught on the counter. That's where the speed and positional awareness of the cb's come in.
Robertson being better than Alexander-Arnold*
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
A very good player for United at the moment, got lots of unwarranted abuse from fans thinking you were getting a Van Dijk.
He's miles off that but still comfortably one of the best in the league. Yes, you overpaid but not massively and he will be a mainstay for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a good summation.
Liverpool play with two fullbacks, who are two of the best in they world, certainly from an attacking point of view. They are not wingbacks. Their roles are not those of wingbacks.
Thursday night we played with three centrebacks, and two wingbacks.
All of that is pretty clear, and entirely uncontroversial.
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
A very good player for United at the moment, got lots of unwarranted abuse from fans thinking you were getting a Van Dijk.
He's miles off that but still comfortably one of the best in the league. Yes, you overpaid but not massively and he will be a mainstay for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a good summation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im trying to understand the logic behind that thought.
1. He states that he's miles off van dijk. (with a pricetag of 75m)
2. Maguire's fee was 80m and considering that he's still miles off and 5m more expensive, how can United not have overpaid massively?
The discrepancy is too big. Also, Leicester is doing well after Maguire left while Southampton was almost relegated after van dijks departure. Their influence is a big contrast. If you look at the sides they're playing for now then you can say that United does look better defensively (albeit with a back 5 at times). Wouldn't it be fair to say that Maguire isn't worth near 80m United paid?
Sign in if you want to comment
Maguire
Page 3 of 5
posted on 21/2/20
We lack aggression massively.
We used to be a force to be reckoned with, hope we can get back to the standards we used to set
posted on 21/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/2/20
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
.....
I have forgot more about football tactics than you will ever understand, Nobb.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
.....
I have forgot more about football tactics than you will ever understand, Nobb.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
Please indulge me. Name the backline of United against Brugge.
"If you think it was then you have no business talking about football."
.......
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Dalot and Williams who are in fact..
FULLBACKS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Who were not playing or set up to play as full backs. This isn’t hard to understand. Even for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool has two of the best wingbacks in the world. Yet I don't say that the Reds start with a 2-4-6/2-6-3 formation. It's a 4-3-3. Wingbacks are offensive minded, but they slot into the fullback position when they need to defend. I understand it hurts your pride to see the mighty Maguire needing 2 other cb's to be solid against stronger teams, but there is no need for shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re wasting your time mate
VC hasn’t understood football tactics since 1932.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You think Liverpool play with wing backs, Robb?
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 1 minute ago
We lack aggression massively.
We used to be a force to be reckoned with, hope we can get back to the standards we used to set
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First there needs to be an idea how to play. A signature. It depends on which players you have and can attract to make the style of play work. Also a backone of specialists is needed in every line. The goal is covered with de Gea.
In the defense you still lack a leader. He doesn't have to be the best, but it would be good to have someone who can compensate for Maguire's weaknesses. Bailly showed glimpses of great play, but suffers from being injury prone. A CB should be able to play a lot of matches and work on a good understanding with his cb partner. Is he the man to go forward with Maguire? Doubtful. Wan-Bissaka is the best defensive fullback in the league, if only he could develop his attacking prowess more. But the big question is how you want to play? Focus on attack through wings with dribbles or crosses? Or attack towards the Wings with passes from the middle or go through the middle with runners and low crosses. Maybe individual skill?
Speaking of which, in the midfield you have Bruno Fernandes who is a specialist and should be played as >attacking< midfielder as much as possible. He can supply good through balls, long shots and key passes. To convert you need runners or players who can make space for themselves. Much like City does, they confuse the opponent by committing many players running into the box, freeing space for the key pass. This means football intelligence and United best bet is Bruno. But you need more than one. Chemistry is important. A Pogba-Bruno combination can be magical. But 1. Will he stay and 2. he's injuryprone, so not something you can rely on. Lastly, you need to identify the midfielders best positions. I still don't know what Fred is for instance. Matic is doing okish in general, but he's more of a squadplayer if you endeavour the quality United once had.
In attack Martial is still a questionmark. His injuries and inconsistency is a problem. Rashford has been a positive and I'd wait to see if he can elevate his game with better players around him, that gel. He's intelligent enough. How many chances does Lingard need and to prove what? Is he even good enough? Honestly no. You could do with a Son-like kind of player. A dribbler, trickster, but it depends on your front three. What will their interaction look like to pose threat? A false 9 like Firmino? A central strong striker who can hold up the ball and is good with headers like Lukaku? Such a player will need service. Bruno alone will probably not be enough so you'll need wingbacks who can put in good crosses. Or you can go for overloads where low crosses and fast, low passing and movement to create space and a shot oppertunity. This will benefit Bruno the most. To be able to do this, United needs to sacrifice a CB and play with two. Maguire's partner should preferably be a speedy one.
This kind of style is more risky and a few more investments are needed to make this work. I think Mata can fill in a role in this since he's intelligent. McTominay can also be key since you'll need a defensive minded midfielder who's good in the air to negate the oppositions high balls, especially during counter attacks so that the defense doesn't need to commit and leave space behind (like you did against Liverpool when Lovren lost his header against Lukaku and United scored)
posted on 21/2/20
There is not much new. Weren't our 1966 World Cup winners called the wingless wonders?
Quelle surprise. It is because we had no wingers, but at least one attacking fullback, Cohen.
The players available dictate the best formation.
posted on 21/2/20
You should listen to VC, he gets most things right imo. Although we do differ occasionally.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 minutes ago
You should listen to VC, he gets most things right imo. Although we do differ occasionally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He got it wrong this time, but I'm sure he is right sometimes. Be it with luck or otherwise.
posted on 21/2/20
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
.....
That didn’t look good on you.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
That’ll be the Alzheimer’s
.....
That didn’t look good on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The world, according to VC 🤔
posted on 21/2/20
He got it wrong this time
....
No I didn’t. Which is why you can’t argue it without looking ridiculous.
Once you understand that Dalot and Williams were not playing as fullbacks you will be able to move on.
posted on 21/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/2/20
The difference is your defense is now a cohesive unit where as ours isn’t dissimilar to where you guys were a few years back.
posted on 21/2/20
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
He got it wrong this time
....
No I didn’t. Which is why you can’t argue it without looking ridiculous.
Once you understand that Dalot and Williams were not playing as fullbacks you will be able to move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You were wrong. I understand the difference between fullbacks and wingbacks. Liverpool also plays with wingbacks, yet I concede that Liverpool plays in a FOUR-three-three. You can say how Dalot and Williams are wingbacks, but you can't deny that they resort back to fullback positions when they need to defend, as do Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Also, Wan-Bissaka played as a 'wingback' in a back 5.
As you can see from my long post on United, I've seen a lot of United and also saw a clear back 5 on numerous occasions. Against certain opposition they played a back 4 with various results. United are still searching for an identity and wish them well in doing so, but you're only kidding yourself if you believe that United never plays in a back 5.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the question I asked... do Liverpool play with wing backs?
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
The difference is your defense is now a cohesive unit where as ours isn’t dissimilar to where you guys were a few years back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter where we were and where we are now. The simple fact is that United is searching for an efficient way to win games with the players they have and I don't begrudge them for it. If a system works, it works. Your wingbacks don't contribute that much in attack, due to the combination of execution and offensive impuls. But you are also 'hampered' with 3 cb's in the back. One could have been a midfielder that adds something on a more advanced position. Again, this isn't a dig, just observation.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their fullbacks are in a completely different league to ours going forward to ours. Our guys are great defenders but aren’t very good going forward, theirs are superb. Fine as long as we don’t expect shaw and awb to be as effective as taa and Robertson in attack. They just don’t have the ability, it’s not really their gane.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy Manticore (U2958)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the question I asked... do Liverpool play with wing backs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, yes.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Bryan ROBBson (U22311)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’d say that Robertson and Trent are asked to contribute a lot more to the attack than AWB and Shaw are (same with Dalot and Williams)
That’s not to say our guys don’t attack but they’re more like fullbacks who occasionally get forward rather than up and down the wings the whole time (like the Liverpool pair who give the side width when the likes of Salah and Mane cut inside)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their fullbacks are in a completely different league to ours going forward to ours. Our guys are great defenders but aren’t very good going forward, theirs are superb. Fine as long as we don’t expect shaw and awb to be as effective as taa and Robertson in attack. They just don’t have the ability, it’s not really their gane.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, defensively, they can both be suspect. Robertson being better than defensively, especially since Alexander-Arnold sometimes defends on the wrong side and like Robertson gets caught on the counter. That's where the speed and positional awareness of the cb's come in.
posted on 21/2/20
Robertson being better than Alexander-Arnold*
posted on 21/2/20
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
A very good player for United at the moment, got lots of unwarranted abuse from fans thinking you were getting a Van Dijk.
He's miles off that but still comfortably one of the best in the league. Yes, you overpaid but not massively and he will be a mainstay for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a good summation.
posted on 21/2/20
Liverpool play with two fullbacks, who are two of the best in they world, certainly from an attacking point of view. They are not wingbacks. Their roles are not those of wingbacks.
Thursday night we played with three centrebacks, and two wingbacks.
All of that is pretty clear, and entirely uncontroversial.
posted on 21/2/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
A very good player for United at the moment, got lots of unwarranted abuse from fans thinking you were getting a Van Dijk.
He's miles off that but still comfortably one of the best in the league. Yes, you overpaid but not massively and he will be a mainstay for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a good summation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im trying to understand the logic behind that thought.
1. He states that he's miles off van dijk. (with a pricetag of 75m)
2. Maguire's fee was 80m and considering that he's still miles off and 5m more expensive, how can United not have overpaid massively?
The discrepancy is too big. Also, Leicester is doing well after Maguire left while Southampton was almost relegated after van dijks departure. Their influence is a big contrast. If you look at the sides they're playing for now then you can say that United does look better defensively (albeit with a back 5 at times). Wouldn't it be fair to say that Maguire isn't worth near 80m United paid?
Page 3 of 5