comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
I said not that long ago that I think UEFA will scrap this competition soon and I still believe that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think would be their alternative?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficult to say, but probably whatever makes them the most money.
I do wonder if the move to 'leagues' is on the cards though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely the future. The branding was set in place from day one, Europa LEAGUE, Champions LEAGUE!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would that be a good thing though? Would it be based on achievements too? Once it finally got up and running, what would qualify you to be in the top or secondary competition? Would there be promotion from domestic to European football? How would that work? Could you only be relegated to your own domestic level?
I don't see how you can have a European league concurrent with domestic leagues and them being harmonised more than they are now, without a European league killing domestic football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think they would just run side by side with domestics just like now. It isn't as crazy as it sounds really.
Currently isn't it like 14 games to win the thing, or maybe 16 with the final play off round.
Scrap the league cup, that saves up to four games, taking us to 20.
Reduce the prem to 18(it should be anyway) saves 4 games taking it to 24 and then we just need to find 10 game times to make it an 18 team league which isn't difficult really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree but the greedy fecks won't care about that
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree but the greedy fecks won't care about that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. It will happen, sadly 👍
There might just be some greedy but smart fecks who recognise what Cinciwolf & merrysuperstevie have described (great discussion btw) as a business model flaw, not just a moral flaw. There's a chance that if it really doesn't work for the fans, then, tragically, it doesn't quite work for the bean counters.
Is there anything that they could do that would prevent them from making money, no matter how much it affects fans?
World Cup in Qatar, European Championship spread across multiple countries, kick off at all sorts of times of the day, implantation of a flawed video system, corrupt people running the game...
... seems to me like they’ve done their best to turn fans away already.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
Is there anything that they could do that would prevent them from making money, no matter how much it affects fans?
World Cup in Qatar, European Championship spread across multiple countries, kick off at all sorts of times of the day, implantation of a flawed video system, corrupt people running the game...
... seems to me like they’ve done their best to turn fans away already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point Winston, but there are subtle differences here between who the agents of evil are, which may or may not prove significant:
Qatar WC: decided by corrupt officials & patronage. Individuals got to prosper from the decision itself, which probably vastly trumped any self-interest invested in whether this resulted in a less successful or even less profitable tournament.
A European super league is only going to happen if the super clubs back the idea. The clubs will act in venal self-interest, but if there's a sense that meaningless, low-stakes fixtures, predictability, etc results in reduced engagement that results in decreasing TV revenues, they may not back it.
The same self-interested logic would have supported diversification of kick-off times because TV is more important than stadium audience for revenue.
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Page 2 of 2
posted on 28/2/20
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
I said not that long ago that I think UEFA will scrap this competition soon and I still believe that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think would be their alternative?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficult to say, but probably whatever makes them the most money.
I do wonder if the move to 'leagues' is on the cards though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely the future. The branding was set in place from day one, Europa LEAGUE, Champions LEAGUE!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would that be a good thing though? Would it be based on achievements too? Once it finally got up and running, what would qualify you to be in the top or secondary competition? Would there be promotion from domestic to European football? How would that work? Could you only be relegated to your own domestic level?
I don't see how you can have a European league concurrent with domestic leagues and them being harmonised more than they are now, without a European league killing domestic football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think they would just run side by side with domestics just like now. It isn't as crazy as it sounds really.
Currently isn't it like 14 games to win the thing, or maybe 16 with the final play off round.
Scrap the league cup, that saves up to four games, taking us to 20.
Reduce the prem to 18(it should be anyway) saves 4 games taking it to 24 and then we just need to find 10 game times to make it an 18 team league which isn't difficult really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
posted on 28/2/20
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
posted on 28/2/20
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
posted on 28/2/20
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree but the greedy fecks won't care about that
posted on 28/2/20
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA606 NFL Fantasy Champion 2019----No Emotional Attachments....five long years (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but how do you qualify for it? The key thing with the current competitions is you have to qualify for them and can and will be eliminated. What's the point in a league where the teams potentially massively change every year based on domestic finished. Unless you disregard domestic finishes and just have an idolised elite?
That system has been tried and failed before. Every league needs promotion and relegation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is the tricky part but i suspect the big clubs will just be given a pass and i doubt they will give a feck what the domestic clubs think or say as English footy would need them.
Maybe a couple of tiers in the CL and a couple in the EL to protect the bigger sides and then if they do happen to fall through it then no excuse, similar mentality to Argentina where they would literally change the rules if a big side ended up near the bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. That's why I'm against it. European elite football should always be an aspiration, rather than a guarantee. I fully expect that the league system will come in, but it will be a terrible thing for football when it does, as it will take away from what it's meant to be about.
I've seen it before. I'm a big Rugby League fan. They've ditched promotion and relegation in the past. And it's always failed. Because it will lead to so many meaningless games, which invariably leads to loss of interest, and money.
When has a CL or Europa League game in the latter stages of the season meant nothing or lost interest from players and viewers alike?
That's why it shouldn't change imo. Don't break what doesn't need fixed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree but the greedy fecks won't care about that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. It will happen, sadly 👍
posted on 29/2/20
There might just be some greedy but smart fecks who recognise what Cinciwolf & merrysuperstevie have described (great discussion btw) as a business model flaw, not just a moral flaw. There's a chance that if it really doesn't work for the fans, then, tragically, it doesn't quite work for the bean counters.
posted on 29/2/20
Is there anything that they could do that would prevent them from making money, no matter how much it affects fans?
World Cup in Qatar, European Championship spread across multiple countries, kick off at all sorts of times of the day, implantation of a flawed video system, corrupt people running the game...
... seems to me like they’ve done their best to turn fans away already.
posted on 29/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
Is there anything that they could do that would prevent them from making money, no matter how much it affects fans?
World Cup in Qatar, European Championship spread across multiple countries, kick off at all sorts of times of the day, implantation of a flawed video system, corrupt people running the game...
... seems to me like they’ve done their best to turn fans away already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point Winston, but there are subtle differences here between who the agents of evil are, which may or may not prove significant:
Qatar WC: decided by corrupt officials & patronage. Individuals got to prosper from the decision itself, which probably vastly trumped any self-interest invested in whether this resulted in a less successful or even less profitable tournament.
A European super league is only going to happen if the super clubs back the idea. The clubs will act in venal self-interest, but if there's a sense that meaningless, low-stakes fixtures, predictability, etc results in reduced engagement that results in decreasing TV revenues, they may not back it.
The same self-interested logic would have supported diversification of kick-off times because TV is more important than stadium audience for revenue.
Page 2 of 2