Norman Hunter - forever synonymous with Franny Lee and the Baseball Ground
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jPZnXgKl70I
The reality is, if you look at the science, that the risk of airborne transmission is low compared to contaminated surfaces, particularly outdoors. The value of the lockdown has been almost entirely to stop people congregating where they will spread the virus onto a surface or a door handle etc where someone else will pick it up. But this has been interpreted by the public at large and the media that the main risk is breathing it in, all the 2m business which doesn't have much of a scientific basis except if someone coughs or sneezes. So it will be very hard to persuade people to go back to normal because they will have got used to the idea of physical separation. I would be perfectly happy to go to a full stadium tomorrow but few will feel the same way, even if they are told it's now OK. Probably, despite what Rameses says, there will be an initial requirement to wear masks simply because there is a tide of public opinion behind it, and even though there isn't the evidence to support wearing them the relevant authorities will think that at least it won't do any harm and it might make people feel better about it.
Overall, the widespread wearing of masks probably causes more harm than good, particularly if re-used. They will harbour all sorts of harmful organisms which love a warm, damp environment. The wearer, feeling false reassurance by the mask, will fiddle with it quite often and touch things, contaminating them, and because they have got the idea that it offers protection from the virus they will forget the vastly more important issue of scrupulous hand hygiene. The only significant value of masks is in someone who has the virus and has a cough.
I'll certainly need a bit of persuasion to return to PP while the virus is about.
Good thread - keep it goingππ
Season tickets: I know it may be incongruous to bring this up - apologies - but who is renewing? I know we have until the end of June. What about this season? What about matches we haven’t seen? What about a discount?
Sorry, if it’s too soon and I KNOW there are far more urgent matters but I’m trying to widen debate.
I have already renewed. I think I should be reimbursed proportionately for matches that I won't be allowed to go and watch this season. I think watching matches on a laptop that are played behind closed doors will be crap and will feel meaningless.
As I said i'll need some persuading that a football stadium is a safe place to visit prior to a covid 19 vaccine being available.
That will be my driver.
This is the thing. There isn't "safe" or "unsafe", just levels of risk. Prior to this we never thought about it but bugs of various levels of nastiness circulate all the time which we could catch and life is full of hazards. Probably even at the moment there would be greater risk of dying from a car crash on the way to the match than by contracting this virus at the match but we don't think about it that way.
As you say it's about mitigating risks. Also it's about how at risk you are.
My wife is one of the 1.5m who have been told to shield so my attending a football match and possibly bringing the virus home whilst it still exists in the community and while no one has been inoculated is far too great a risk in my opinion.
Research and testing will no doubt greatly improve our understanding of the spread as well as who is most vulnerable physiologically speaking.
I don't think it'll be renewing for 20/21 for the reasons above. It's going to cost me in multi-season renewal discount but I think it has to be this way.
The other way is of course If I get it and recover then I would probably be immune but even that may not be foolproof. There's word from South Korea that over 100 people have re-contracted covid although its only anecdotal at this time.
The last bit is not likely to be true. Fragments of RNA can still be detected in people who have recovered from the virus and who are no longer infectious and this is very likely to be the reason for the positive tests.
If we were to go to matches then the main risk would be when people use the toilets or buy food or drink. This is where there will be contaminated surfaces through which someone could get it on their hands and then into their mouths. Infection through the air is very unlikely. The sensible thing would be not to allow any sales of food or drink in or around the ground in the first instance. Wash basins in the toilets could be supplemented by gel dispensers. For an individual who practises good hygiene and who can refrain from touching their face regularly then the actual risk would be very low, but I suspect that many would as Rameses says feel psychologically vulnerable. But where does that end? At some point shops will re-open and we will need plumbers, electricians etc to come into our homes to fix things. Every year seasonal flu kills a few thousand so at any point in time there is never no risk at all of picking up a germ that might end up killing us. It's just that we never thought about it before. Adjusting to the idea that we live continually with an element of risk is going to be difficult but it will be necessary to start living our lives again.
The vaccine will sort it eventually. Research and testing in the meantime is needed to enlighten us further.
While still don't know enough, we have to be careful.
How opening a football stadium can be countenanced, even in the next year, is hard to see.
FFS Rameses, listen to the medicine man, just practice good hygiene, wash your hands and don't touch your face.
It really isn't too difficult.
Just reading that we should prepare for 6 waves of infection next year. That would more or less cancel next season.
The political right in the US seem to have taken to this virus with enthusiasm now they know there are more deaths in the black and latino communities. Small wonder Trump pulled out of funding the WHO. He wont want a vaccine too quickly.
I respect your opinion Rameses but I disagree. If the scientific evidence is such that the risk of transmission in an open air stadium is low then of course it should be re-opened. As with everything we should be guided by the best information that is available and it may be necessary to modify certain things to reduce the risk further. I don't think that there is any doubt that there will be incredible caution in all manner of things around the world but we will start thinking about it slightly differently if cases continue to fall. But it's conjecture at the moment. In the next few weeks we will learn a whole lot more, especially what happens in those countries that have relaxed restrictions.
Spart, at the moment anyone can grab a few column inches by looking at worst-case scenarios. It's pure guesswork. A few weeks ago we thought the Nightingale hospitals would be choc-full of ventilated patients and that there would be corpses in body bags piled up in the streets. The Birmingham Nightingale hospital remains empty and may well never be used. IF we find that when countries relax restrictions there is a quick spike in cases then it becomes more likely that there will be a stop-go prolonged period of waves of cases, lockdowns, relaxations, further waves etc. So far we haven't seen this happen in South Korea or anywhere else which is hopeful but the crux will be over the next few weeks when everyone, including the UK, ease off and watch what happens.
Just heard from a theatre nurse friend of mine who was called back from retirement. She says that hospitals are fighting over patients at the moment.
Thankfully the UK is not like the US. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52311877
Some truth in that Spart. Our wards are much quieter and so is A/E. A lot of the predictions of overwhelming the NHS were based on the reasonable assumption that in addition to Covid there would be the usual numbers of acute hospital admissions.
But they have dwindled to very few. It’s very interesting. In normal times, probably 80-90% of a Ute surgical admissions don’t have anything wrong with them, or at least nothing that can be found by the marvels of modern medicine. We scan them and do blood tests which are all normal, and after a couple of days they go home again with a euphemistic diagnosis of “non-specific abdominal pain”. Most of these patients are relatively young and often seek medical attention frequently over the years without anything serious coming to light. These patients are simply not turning up now. Presumably they are managing themselves at home and their symptoms resolving. I was talking to a colleague today who said that at the moment it’s like the “old days”, when the emergency surgical admissions all had serious conditions that needed treatment, rather than the great majority using resource and just making sure that there ISN’T anything wrong.
The worried well are staying away. If this behaviour was sustained the demand on the NHS would be vastly reduced. The same applies to outpatient work. Of the complex tests we do, the yield of pathology is usually very low, maybe a few percent or even less. The rest are normal. People generally find this hard to believe but most symptoms that people experience do not have any sinister cause, or even any demonstrable cause at all.
The worried well will be back, I’m sure. At the moment we are all so scared of this virus that the symptoms that would send us to the doctor in normal times we are putting up with. But we need to worry, and when this is over we will need something to fill the void. We will be off to the doctor with our sore knees, sniffles, itchy toenails and whatnot and demanding treatments and referral to specialists and fancy tests.
Obviously there are some who will suffer - those with serious conditions like cancer who will sit this out and then come to medical attention later, maybe too late. But it’s really curious how huge the drop has been in the general workload. No chaff at the moment, just wheat, and not too much of it.
The one thing I have done religiously for the last month and some is wash my hands.
But are people actually doing it right.
I think not.
A few minutes should suffice Igor. A month is probably unnecessary.....
comment by HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 12 hours, 12 minutes ago
A few minutes should suffice Igor. A month is probably unnecessary.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worth dropping in for, that, Heb
Noticed the outer Hebrides have 6 cases of this virus. Amazed you have any Heb.
comment by Spart-Derby really are the best says red dog. (U4603)
posted 33 minutes ago
Noticed the outer Hebrides have 6 cases of this virus. Amazed you have any Heb.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the ones who brought it in were socialists.
Heb, would the tale of the Regimental Bat be inappropriate at the current time?
comment by FinlandRam (U3621)
posted 4 minutes ago
Heb, would the tale of the Regimental Bat be inappropriate at the current time?
Nah it wasn't the bat's fault....
Sign in if you want to comment
Keep the home fires burning
Page 29 of 59
30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34
posted on 17/4/20
Norman Hunter - forever synonymous with Franny Lee and the Baseball Ground
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jPZnXgKl70I
posted on 17/4/20
The reality is, if you look at the science, that the risk of airborne transmission is low compared to contaminated surfaces, particularly outdoors. The value of the lockdown has been almost entirely to stop people congregating where they will spread the virus onto a surface or a door handle etc where someone else will pick it up. But this has been interpreted by the public at large and the media that the main risk is breathing it in, all the 2m business which doesn't have much of a scientific basis except if someone coughs or sneezes. So it will be very hard to persuade people to go back to normal because they will have got used to the idea of physical separation. I would be perfectly happy to go to a full stadium tomorrow but few will feel the same way, even if they are told it's now OK. Probably, despite what Rameses says, there will be an initial requirement to wear masks simply because there is a tide of public opinion behind it, and even though there isn't the evidence to support wearing them the relevant authorities will think that at least it won't do any harm and it might make people feel better about it.
Overall, the widespread wearing of masks probably causes more harm than good, particularly if re-used. They will harbour all sorts of harmful organisms which love a warm, damp environment. The wearer, feeling false reassurance by the mask, will fiddle with it quite often and touch things, contaminating them, and because they have got the idea that it offers protection from the virus they will forget the vastly more important issue of scrupulous hand hygiene. The only significant value of masks is in someone who has the virus and has a cough.
posted on 17/4/20
I'll certainly need a bit of persuasion to return to PP while the virus is about.
posted on 17/4/20
Good thread - keep it goingππ
Season tickets: I know it may be incongruous to bring this up - apologies - but who is renewing? I know we have until the end of June. What about this season? What about matches we haven’t seen? What about a discount?
Sorry, if it’s too soon and I KNOW there are far more urgent matters but I’m trying to widen debate.
posted on 17/4/20
I have already renewed. I think I should be reimbursed proportionately for matches that I won't be allowed to go and watch this season. I think watching matches on a laptop that are played behind closed doors will be crap and will feel meaningless.
posted on 17/4/20
As I said i'll need some persuading that a football stadium is a safe place to visit prior to a covid 19 vaccine being available.
That will be my driver.
posted on 17/4/20
This is the thing. There isn't "safe" or "unsafe", just levels of risk. Prior to this we never thought about it but bugs of various levels of nastiness circulate all the time which we could catch and life is full of hazards. Probably even at the moment there would be greater risk of dying from a car crash on the way to the match than by contracting this virus at the match but we don't think about it that way.
posted on 17/4/20
As you say it's about mitigating risks. Also it's about how at risk you are.
My wife is one of the 1.5m who have been told to shield so my attending a football match and possibly bringing the virus home whilst it still exists in the community and while no one has been inoculated is far too great a risk in my opinion.
Research and testing will no doubt greatly improve our understanding of the spread as well as who is most vulnerable physiologically speaking.
I don't think it'll be renewing for 20/21 for the reasons above. It's going to cost me in multi-season renewal discount but I think it has to be this way.
The other way is of course If I get it and recover then I would probably be immune but even that may not be foolproof. There's word from South Korea that over 100 people have re-contracted covid although its only anecdotal at this time.
posted on 17/4/20
The last bit is not likely to be true. Fragments of RNA can still be detected in people who have recovered from the virus and who are no longer infectious and this is very likely to be the reason for the positive tests.
If we were to go to matches then the main risk would be when people use the toilets or buy food or drink. This is where there will be contaminated surfaces through which someone could get it on their hands and then into their mouths. Infection through the air is very unlikely. The sensible thing would be not to allow any sales of food or drink in or around the ground in the first instance. Wash basins in the toilets could be supplemented by gel dispensers. For an individual who practises good hygiene and who can refrain from touching their face regularly then the actual risk would be very low, but I suspect that many would as Rameses says feel psychologically vulnerable. But where does that end? At some point shops will re-open and we will need plumbers, electricians etc to come into our homes to fix things. Every year seasonal flu kills a few thousand so at any point in time there is never no risk at all of picking up a germ that might end up killing us. It's just that we never thought about it before. Adjusting to the idea that we live continually with an element of risk is going to be difficult but it will be necessary to start living our lives again.
posted on 17/4/20
The vaccine will sort it eventually. Research and testing in the meantime is needed to enlighten us further.
While still don't know enough, we have to be careful.
How opening a football stadium can be countenanced, even in the next year, is hard to see.
posted on 17/4/20
FFS Rameses, listen to the medicine man, just practice good hygiene, wash your hands and don't touch your face.
It really isn't too difficult.
posted on 17/4/20
Just reading that we should prepare for 6 waves of infection next year. That would more or less cancel next season.
The political right in the US seem to have taken to this virus with enthusiasm now they know there are more deaths in the black and latino communities. Small wonder Trump pulled out of funding the WHO. He wont want a vaccine too quickly.
posted on 17/4/20
I respect your opinion Rameses but I disagree. If the scientific evidence is such that the risk of transmission in an open air stadium is low then of course it should be re-opened. As with everything we should be guided by the best information that is available and it may be necessary to modify certain things to reduce the risk further. I don't think that there is any doubt that there will be incredible caution in all manner of things around the world but we will start thinking about it slightly differently if cases continue to fall. But it's conjecture at the moment. In the next few weeks we will learn a whole lot more, especially what happens in those countries that have relaxed restrictions.
posted on 17/4/20
Spart, at the moment anyone can grab a few column inches by looking at worst-case scenarios. It's pure guesswork. A few weeks ago we thought the Nightingale hospitals would be choc-full of ventilated patients and that there would be corpses in body bags piled up in the streets. The Birmingham Nightingale hospital remains empty and may well never be used. IF we find that when countries relax restrictions there is a quick spike in cases then it becomes more likely that there will be a stop-go prolonged period of waves of cases, lockdowns, relaxations, further waves etc. So far we haven't seen this happen in South Korea or anywhere else which is hopeful but the crux will be over the next few weeks when everyone, including the UK, ease off and watch what happens.
posted on 17/4/20
Just heard from a theatre nurse friend of mine who was called back from retirement. She says that hospitals are fighting over patients at the moment.
Thankfully the UK is not like the US. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52311877
posted on 17/4/20
Some truth in that Spart. Our wards are much quieter and so is A/E. A lot of the predictions of overwhelming the NHS were based on the reasonable assumption that in addition to Covid there would be the usual numbers of acute hospital admissions.
But they have dwindled to very few. It’s very interesting. In normal times, probably 80-90% of a Ute surgical admissions don’t have anything wrong with them, or at least nothing that can be found by the marvels of modern medicine. We scan them and do blood tests which are all normal, and after a couple of days they go home again with a euphemistic diagnosis of “non-specific abdominal pain”. Most of these patients are relatively young and often seek medical attention frequently over the years without anything serious coming to light. These patients are simply not turning up now. Presumably they are managing themselves at home and their symptoms resolving. I was talking to a colleague today who said that at the moment it’s like the “old days”, when the emergency surgical admissions all had serious conditions that needed treatment, rather than the great majority using resource and just making sure that there ISN’T anything wrong.
The worried well are staying away. If this behaviour was sustained the demand on the NHS would be vastly reduced. The same applies to outpatient work. Of the complex tests we do, the yield of pathology is usually very low, maybe a few percent or even less. The rest are normal. People generally find this hard to believe but most symptoms that people experience do not have any sinister cause, or even any demonstrable cause at all.
The worried well will be back, I’m sure. At the moment we are all so scared of this virus that the symptoms that would send us to the doctor in normal times we are putting up with. But we need to worry, and when this is over we will need something to fill the void. We will be off to the doctor with our sore knees, sniffles, itchy toenails and whatnot and demanding treatments and referral to specialists and fancy tests.
Obviously there are some who will suffer - those with serious conditions like cancer who will sit this out and then come to medical attention later, maybe too late. But it’s really curious how huge the drop has been in the general workload. No chaff at the moment, just wheat, and not too much of it.
posted on 18/4/20
The one thing I have done religiously for the last month and some is wash my hands.
But are people actually doing it right.
I think not.
posted on 18/4/20
A few minutes should suffice Igor. A month is probably unnecessary.....
posted on 18/4/20
posted on 18/4/20
Yes that deserves a
posted on 18/4/20
comment by HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 12 hours, 12 minutes ago
A few minutes should suffice Igor. A month is probably unnecessary.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worth dropping in for, that, Heb
posted on 19/4/20
Noticed the outer Hebrides have 6 cases of this virus. Amazed you have any Heb.
posted on 19/4/20
comment by Spart-Derby really are the best says red dog. (U4603)
posted 33 minutes ago
Noticed the outer Hebrides have 6 cases of this virus. Amazed you have any Heb.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the ones who brought it in were socialists.
posted on 19/4/20
Heb, would the tale of the Regimental Bat be inappropriate at the current time?
posted on 19/4/20
comment by FinlandRam (U3621)
posted 4 minutes ago
Heb, would the tale of the Regimental Bat be inappropriate at the current time?
Nah it wasn't the bat's fault....
Page 29 of 59
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