Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Very good, well thought out article.
I think whatever is decided will be changed anyway as I think that some clubs will go to the wall before all this is over.
The only thing I would want from reconstruction is an expanded league that reduced the number of times we played each club to 2 times a season.
I actually think the old firm would be an even better occasion if it were only 2 times a year rather than 4 (and sometimes more)
The problem is thats a non starter TV deal wise unfortunately thats a big chunk of the league's income.
PROS for me (from a 14 team top flight, assuming a top 6/bottom 8 split after 26 games):
1) As much as I despise a sizeable element of the poisonous Hearts support, the top flight is all the better with them in it ... and the likes of the Dundee teams.
2) As you say, a bit more freshness in terms of having 2 more teams to play ... and also having to only play the "dross" (bottom 8) sides twice, instead of 3 times. That has to be a massive positive!
3) 2 less league games for the top 6, so a bit more rest for those competing in Europe beyond August (so the OF basically ).
4) Gives more teams a fighting chance to make the top flight. I'd have more relegation/end of season play-off spots to ensure that, which would also potentially help to freshen up the teams in the top flight.
5) We forever remove the nonsense of the current split meaning playing teams 3 times away etc. The "split" is a great idea IMO, but that aspect of it sucks. Playing everybody home and away (26 games), splitting into top 6/bottom 8, then playing everybody in your "half" home & away again, means teams will always have the same number of home & away games (in total, and against individual clubs). That's a massive PRO for moving to 14.
CONS? I honestly don't see any ... BUT I'd only be in favour of change if it's permanent, and not just a quick "fix" to keep Hearts up. But then I have been suggesting a top 14, with this split, for over 2 years now.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I have one proposal and that is you are only allowed in the top flight if you have a grass pitch if not fook right off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This! Address the single biggest concern to the core employees at every club.
I’d like to see 2 leagues of 20
Increase number of teams ....play each other twice...summer football....then watch Scottish football flourish
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I have one proposal and that is you are only allowed in the top flight if you have a grass pitch if not fook right off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This! Address the single biggest concern to the core employees at every club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to see increased numbers in the top division
Maybe 14
Split 6-8 after 2 rounds
Still gives TV the 4 Glasgow derby games and avoid relegation this year.
Also agree on the pitches being grass
Joe/67 ... A reconstruction that leads to only 2 OF league games a season is NEVER happening. We already get fook all from TV deals, so nobody is voting for anything that reduces TV money further. Total non-starter.
BTW, I doubt that a 14 team league will be agreed either, again down to self-interest/preservation. Any team that might finish outside the “new” top 6 (most of them?) is looking at only 4 OF games a season, vs the current 6 ... so probably one less Home game against one of the OF. That’s a big deal financially ... combined with splitting the top flight cake between 14 teams instead of 12. Faced with that, most will vote for the status quo IMO, regardless of any wider benefits.
SPR, I agree the number of fixtures with the same clubs makes our product boring to market which I think is a big reason why the TV deals are so poor. I’m all for an expanded league format, even with fewer old firm fixtures, making them more special like you say and having a bigger importance on the outcome of the league when these occur. Not keen on the split if I’m honest. It’s purpose is to generate an extra OF head to head for the TV contract but offers no real benefit to other clubs.
As example St Johnstone now sit above Hibs atm with a point less due to league position when the split was called. Ludicrous if you ask me. No split is fairer but is deemed necessary for the Contract.
Some more Pros for expansion:
Promotion/Relegation could be expanded to make the Leagues more competitive. (5)
Change might end uncertainty over the current Campaign. Allowing the League officials to plan for our future best interests. (6)
This could offer Clarity on the Financial Future of the Leagues. (7)
More Clubs get bigger gate receipts from games with the OF helping to distribute wealth within the Leagues giving those clubs a chance to be viable/stable going forward. (8)
In a bigger league some yo-yo clubs prone to Relegation and likely candidates for Promotion could benefit. This might offer them some stability in the long erm with fewer forced changes to Budgets and Structure. (9)
And for parity, the Cons:
Without establishing a complete pyramid structure this will always be perceived half-cocked. (f)
Potentially more meaningless games toward season end. (g)
Too many formats are being looked at with too little support for any to pass. (h)
Clubs (just) outside of the expansion proposal are feeling hard done by and rightly objecting. (i)
An entire Tier might be destroyed in a sporting sense with some of these proposals. (j)
The top league would be entirely dependent on the split which might come earlier. Numbers of H/A matches will continue to be a problem for sporting integrity. (k)
There will be a cost involved for some Clubs getting ready for the step up. Stadia requirements, squad depth, policing, etc. (l)
Any more you can think of?
Who’s best versed on here to summarise the options offered and propose the most likely candidate for acceptance if Reconstruction were granted?
I accept Point (6) is now irrelevant but a few weeks ago could have been important.
I'd go back to ten teams, invite only franchise, no relegation, grass only.
Celtic
Rangers
Dons
Hearts
Hibs
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Thistle
1 more - could be an Ayrshire, or Highland franchise if they meet the criteria.
That is if the OF can't GTF out into a better league - the disparity is too large.
Haven’t paid too much attention to this round of talks to be honest but always liked the idea of more teams and less games. More focus on quality than quantity.
We could have a 16 club PL, and a 24 club League 1 (subtracting a couple for expected 2020 bankruptcy).
Play each team twice, no weird splits, with 2 teams promoted/relegated (1 automatic, 1 by playoff).
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
They have nobody to blame but themselves
The great thing is they pumped rangers
Keep the league as it is , nobody is going to enhance it are they ?
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
comment by CelticTornado (U4316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
They have nobody to blame but themselves
The great thing is they pumped rangers
Keep the league as it is , nobody is going to enhance it are they ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldnt make it worse but would be fair on all
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a good line that’s getting trotted out. Nothing said from a Juventus official right enough, but it’s a good line.
So there's a consensus that for the sake of the TV deal we need to keep the same number of OF's to
keep a product to sell to the TV.
We knew that though, so a split will be required.
& Plastic pitches are as popular as VD
I wouldn't like to return to a top flight 10.
It was boring boring, boring
With a change the other clubs might be losing a money spinning fixture with either Glasgow club so this isn't viable.
What we are saying is that every other club is happy to keep taking the bigger gates when the OF's in town and aren't interested in a better or simpler structure to improve our product.
Both Glasgow clubs are being held ransom by this league.
I've read reports saying these two clubs hold all the cards but really all they carry is a Vito card. To stop the rest continue to vote to take the money from the OF.
Sadly, our product's never going to improve. That's the reality. Time to focus on expanding the playoffs to make promotion and relegation more exciting. That's possibly the most interesting change our league could stand to approve.
I get why many Celtic men are happy to see the jambo's suffer, their hate of our club borders on obsessive
But
I think tynecastle is a great ground and will be sad we won't be visit next season.
Sign in if you want to comment
League Reconstruction Debate
Page 1 of 2
posted on 20/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/5/20
Very good, well thought out article.
I think whatever is decided will be changed anyway as I think that some clubs will go to the wall before all this is over.
posted on 20/5/20
The only thing I would want from reconstruction is an expanded league that reduced the number of times we played each club to 2 times a season.
I actually think the old firm would be an even better occasion if it were only 2 times a year rather than 4 (and sometimes more)
The problem is thats a non starter TV deal wise unfortunately thats a big chunk of the league's income.
posted on 20/5/20
PROS for me (from a 14 team top flight, assuming a top 6/bottom 8 split after 26 games):
1) As much as I despise a sizeable element of the poisonous Hearts support, the top flight is all the better with them in it ... and the likes of the Dundee teams.
2) As you say, a bit more freshness in terms of having 2 more teams to play ... and also having to only play the "dross" (bottom 8) sides twice, instead of 3 times. That has to be a massive positive!
3) 2 less league games for the top 6, so a bit more rest for those competing in Europe beyond August (so the OF basically ).
4) Gives more teams a fighting chance to make the top flight. I'd have more relegation/end of season play-off spots to ensure that, which would also potentially help to freshen up the teams in the top flight.
5) We forever remove the nonsense of the current split meaning playing teams 3 times away etc. The "split" is a great idea IMO, but that aspect of it sucks. Playing everybody home and away (26 games), splitting into top 6/bottom 8, then playing everybody in your "half" home & away again, means teams will always have the same number of home & away games (in total, and against individual clubs). That's a massive PRO for moving to 14.
CONS? I honestly don't see any ... BUT I'd only be in favour of change if it's permanent, and not just a quick "fix" to keep Hearts up. But then I have been suggesting a top 14, with this split, for over 2 years now.
posted on 20/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/5/20
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I have one proposal and that is you are only allowed in the top flight if you have a grass pitch if not fook right off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This! Address the single biggest concern to the core employees at every club.
posted on 20/5/20
I’d like to see 2 leagues of 20
posted on 20/5/20
Increase number of teams ....play each other twice...summer football....then watch Scottish football flourish
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
I have one proposal and that is you are only allowed in the top flight if you have a grass pitch if not fook right off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This! Address the single biggest concern to the core employees at every club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 20/5/20
I would like to see increased numbers in the top division
Maybe 14
Split 6-8 after 2 rounds
Still gives TV the 4 Glasgow derby games and avoid relegation this year.
Also agree on the pitches being grass
posted on 20/5/20
Joe/67 ... A reconstruction that leads to only 2 OF league games a season is NEVER happening. We already get fook all from TV deals, so nobody is voting for anything that reduces TV money further. Total non-starter.
BTW, I doubt that a 14 team league will be agreed either, again down to self-interest/preservation. Any team that might finish outside the “new” top 6 (most of them?) is looking at only 4 OF games a season, vs the current 6 ... so probably one less Home game against one of the OF. That’s a big deal financially ... combined with splitting the top flight cake between 14 teams instead of 12. Faced with that, most will vote for the status quo IMO, regardless of any wider benefits.
posted on 20/5/20
SPR, I agree the number of fixtures with the same clubs makes our product boring to market which I think is a big reason why the TV deals are so poor. I’m all for an expanded league format, even with fewer old firm fixtures, making them more special like you say and having a bigger importance on the outcome of the league when these occur. Not keen on the split if I’m honest. It’s purpose is to generate an extra OF head to head for the TV contract but offers no real benefit to other clubs.
As example St Johnstone now sit above Hibs atm with a point less due to league position when the split was called. Ludicrous if you ask me. No split is fairer but is deemed necessary for the Contract.
Some more Pros for expansion:
Promotion/Relegation could be expanded to make the Leagues more competitive. (5)
Change might end uncertainty over the current Campaign. Allowing the League officials to plan for our future best interests. (6)
This could offer Clarity on the Financial Future of the Leagues. (7)
More Clubs get bigger gate receipts from games with the OF helping to distribute wealth within the Leagues giving those clubs a chance to be viable/stable going forward. (8)
In a bigger league some yo-yo clubs prone to Relegation and likely candidates for Promotion could benefit. This might offer them some stability in the long erm with fewer forced changes to Budgets and Structure. (9)
And for parity, the Cons:
Without establishing a complete pyramid structure this will always be perceived half-cocked. (f)
Potentially more meaningless games toward season end. (g)
Too many formats are being looked at with too little support for any to pass. (h)
Clubs (just) outside of the expansion proposal are feeling hard done by and rightly objecting. (i)
An entire Tier might be destroyed in a sporting sense with some of these proposals. (j)
The top league would be entirely dependent on the split which might come earlier. Numbers of H/A matches will continue to be a problem for sporting integrity. (k)
There will be a cost involved for some Clubs getting ready for the step up. Stadia requirements, squad depth, policing, etc. (l)
Any more you can think of?
Who’s best versed on here to summarise the options offered and propose the most likely candidate for acceptance if Reconstruction were granted?
I accept Point (6) is now irrelevant but a few weeks ago could have been important.
posted on 20/5/20
I'd go back to ten teams, invite only franchise, no relegation, grass only.
Celtic
Rangers
Dons
Hearts
Hibs
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Thistle
1 more - could be an Ayrshire, or Highland franchise if they meet the criteria.
That is if the OF can't GTF out into a better league - the disparity is too large.
posted on 20/5/20
Haven’t paid too much attention to this round of talks to be honest but always liked the idea of more teams and less games. More focus on quality than quantity.
We could have a 16 club PL, and a 24 club League 1 (subtracting a couple for expected 2020 bankruptcy).
Play each team twice, no weird splits, with 2 teams promoted/relegated (1 automatic, 1 by playoff).
posted on 20/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/5/20
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
posted on 20/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
They have nobody to blame but themselves
The great thing is they pumped rangers
Keep the league as it is , nobody is going to enhance it are they ?
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
posted on 20/5/20
comment by CelticTornado (U4316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cheesy (U14278)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dissapointing we didnt revamp for one season only to avoid relegation.
Handing out titles is fine but to relegate a team is unfair especially when the gap is close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
They have nobody to blame but themselves
The great thing is they pumped rangers
Keep the league as it is , nobody is going to enhance it are they ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldnt make it worse but would be fair on all
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 20/5/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Demented Joe Hiding v Orange Baffoon (U21917)
posted 18 minutes ago
Juventus what a football club they are, a lot of respect for them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Done for match fixing, stripped of the title and relegated - that Juventus?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a good line that’s getting trotted out. Nothing said from a Juventus official right enough, but it’s a good line.
posted on 21/5/20
So there's a consensus that for the sake of the TV deal we need to keep the same number of OF's to
keep a product to sell to the TV.
We knew that though, so a split will be required.
& Plastic pitches are as popular as VD
I wouldn't like to return to a top flight 10.
It was boring boring, boring
With a change the other clubs might be losing a money spinning fixture with either Glasgow club so this isn't viable.
What we are saying is that every other club is happy to keep taking the bigger gates when the OF's in town and aren't interested in a better or simpler structure to improve our product.
Both Glasgow clubs are being held ransom by this league.
I've read reports saying these two clubs hold all the cards but really all they carry is a Vito card. To stop the rest continue to vote to take the money from the OF.
Sadly, our product's never going to improve. That's the reality. Time to focus on expanding the playoffs to make promotion and relegation more exciting. That's possibly the most interesting change our league could stand to approve.
posted on 21/5/20
I get why many Celtic men are happy to see the jambo's suffer, their hate of our club borders on obsessive
But
I think tynecastle is a great ground and will be sad we won't be visit next season.
Page 1 of 2