The point about squad value is your argument is about squad quality and depth. In that context, whatever you paid for someone initially is irrelevant, as that’s a different argument about the quality of the squad building. It’s not as if TAA doesn’t exist because you didn’t pay for him. Nor is a 60m or a 50m defender relevant if they aren’t available. If you think we’ve got as much depth as you (or even United tbh) in either centre defence or centre midfield, then it’s not my opinion that’s the outlier.
Let’s leave it though mamba, we’ll clearly disagree on it and I’m not up for going even further into false equivalence as the cycle will never break. Fairly sure someone has done a squad breakdown article on here recently though, think it might be worth you reading that if you want to break out of it yourself though. I’d also say you’re 23 points clear, no ones been competing with you in the league for about five months now.
You're being dishonest by repeatedly bringing up current values. I'm sure you know those breakdowns dont matter. Were talking about City being able to challenge on all fronts for years and you keep bringing up current squad values. Its irrelevant and a bit desperate tbh because it clearly doesn't make sense. What will matter more is initial values of course.
TAA would likely not have made it at City as they prefer to buy ready made players. He would have had a couple of 50m players ahead of him in the line up. You need to look up and study the circumstances that forced Liverpool to put their hope in the likes of TAA. These are not problems City have.
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project. Its too easy to say 'you have TAA now' and compare him to a player at City as if we didn't need years to build him. Meanwhile City buy ready players, often amongst the best in the league/world in their position and dominate all the competitions.
At what point would a City fan just admit that the Sheikhs money has been an advantage and its why they can do what other teams can't? Its not a pop. Its a fact. Trying to make out like circumstances are similar or close to similar is astonishing and baffling denial of fact IMO. Its shouldn't even be debatable. Only in football.
Liverpool and City couldn't be more different in the manner in which they have arrived at success.
Like I said, you’re creating a false narrative and equivalence and putting words in my mouth on top now (I hope just to try and deflect away from the initial point as that’s better than the alternative), so let’s leave it there.
This is how it always goes. Everytime either I've done this or I've done that. You focus on my persona because you just can't address the points raised because its true and you're the one coming up with a false narrative and trying to revise/erase history.
Better off leaving it there as there's nothing more to say as far as I can see.
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project.
----------------------------------
Remind me how much Foden cost us.
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
It’s completely irrelevant to the point being discussed in the first place anyway. That’s exactly what I mean, the debates turned into something else. I’m ok with that, that happens but don’t project at the same time, that’s just ridiculous.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 13 minutes ago
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were discussing City's ability to challenge in all fronts in the last few years. Again, what does that have to do with City's current squad depth?
"I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted"
Completely irrelevant and nobody asked you to do that tbh.
City were the best team ever last season. These problems you highlight are not unique to City and cannot account for being 25 points behind. In fact City are the best placed team of all to deal with these issues and yet you purport to rely on them against other teams who are worse off. Its insane.
Doesn't matter if you've said it all season, its still a weak excuse. I haven't changed any criteria mate.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 16 minutes ago
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project.
----------------------------------
Remind me how much Foden cost us.
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Foden
Good player but is this supposed to prove that City and Liverpool have been operating under similar conditions?
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
-----
Look how desperate your points are. Do I even need to go into this? How many years passed between these guys and Pogba? I could go on.
How is cherry picking a stat going to change what everyone bar City fans can see clearly?
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
-----
What an allegation to make.
The reverse is true. You want to make out like City were badly compromised so as to take the shine off Liverpools destruction of City in this year's title race, if you can even call it that tbh.
I'd say Liverpool defeated City not just on the pitch but also mentally, peeling away the air of invincibility and forcing them to doubt themselves.
Trying to put it down to some squad problems which everyone is facing anyway and while being a team that has benefitted from unprecedented levels of investment is a bit of a stretch.
Let's not forget that wages are also part of the value and City made a loss for three consecutive years after which they immediately started sweeping all the trophies.
In 2011 alone did City not report a calendar year loss of around £190m million? Whch was an increase of £70m on the previous year? Just read that again slowly.
If Liverpool did this and did not dominate for years thereafter I'd be pretty disappointed. During the same period, Liverpool recorded record losses with no rich owner to bail out the club. We wanted Aguero for a long time apparently, and he said some good things about us but I remember we couldn't afford sheet and City came in and just paid the money.
Liverpool escaped administration, lost opportunities to sign top players and lost top players we already had like Torres and later Suarez. We've been rebuilding organically ever since, using our own resources and wits to get ahead and have done well to come on top of a team in City that has had it very easy in comparison.
Making losses per season so huge that they could buy 10 league one clubs, and for 3 years too, that's a rocket boost and its why you've been able to challenge on all fronts for the following years. How can you argue otherwise? Are we just gonna pretend it didn't happen or what?
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 13 minutes ago
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were discussing City's ability to challenge in all fronts in the last few years. Again, what does that have to do with City's current squad depth?
"I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted"
Completely irrelevant and nobody asked you to do that tbh.
City were the best team ever last season. These problems you highlight are not unique to City and cannot account for being 25 points behind. In fact City are the best placed team of all to deal with these issues and yet you purport to rely on them against other teams who are worse off. Its insane.
Doesn't matter if you've said it all season, its still a weak excuse. I haven't changed any criteria mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have, read back through this thread and the initial point that started this conversation. We were talking about prioritising cups and the point was we do it regardless. I’ve even said a few times we’ve had both a bigger and better squad in previous seasons.
They don’t solely account for us being 25 points behind either, I’ve never said it has, that wasn’t even what we were talking about. There’s been plenty of other reasons for that.
Why are we the best equipped this season? We are the best equipped to fix it (cl ban outstanding) for the future, it doesn’t change us having an issue right now with our main spine for pretty much the last decade coming to an end and us not having enough cover in certain areas.
It’s still our fault, I don’t see how me being critical of the club is an excuse. An excuse would be to blame exterior motives surely, I’m giving a reason, a reason that was obvious even before the season started. It doesn’t detract from others.
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
-----
What an allegation to make.
The reverse is true. You want to make out like City were badly compromised so as to take the shine off Liverpools destruction of City in this year's title race, if you can even call it that tbh.
I'd say Liverpool defeated City not just on the pitch but also mentally, peeling away the air of invincibility and forcing them to doubt themselves.
Trying to put it down to some squad problems which everyone is facing anyway and while being a team that has benefitted from unprecedented levels of investment is a bit of a stretch.
Let's not forget that wages are also part of the value and City made a loss for three consecutive years after which they immediately started sweeping all the trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
You’re also now giving a solitary reason yourself for it happening despite me never even arguing or providing any other reason.
I’m fine with having a debate about what I say and in good faith. I have absolutely zero interest in either disingenuous ones or ones I’m not even making in the first place.
Yes you have, read back through this thread and the initial point that started this conversation. We were talking about prioritising cups and the point was we do it regardless.
------
Regardless of what? Either you have a big squad full of quality or you don't. You can't have the squad and then use all these mitigating factors to make out like having a superior squad isn't actually an advantage.
So at some point some players get injured. Isn't that why you have the largest most expensive squad? Isn't this aimed at achieveing success? And has it not worked a charm? If you have a big squad you don't need to prioritise because of injuries, that's the point of having a big squad in the first place.
Can you say you didn't prioritise maybe when players were injured? You don't prioritise because those injured players would be available at a later date when recovered, and those who play today can rest later and so on, therefore you can use a strong team in every game.
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 11 minutes ago
In 2011 alone did City not report a calendar year loss of around £190m million? Whch was an increase of £70m on the previous year? Just read that again slowly.
If Liverpool did this and did not dominate for years thereafter I'd be pretty disappointed. During the same period, Liverpool recorded record losses with no rich owner to bail out the club. We wanted Aguero for a long time apparently, and he said some good things about us but I remember we couldn't afford sheet and City came in and just paid the money.
Liverpool escaped administration, lost opportunities to sign top players and lost top players we already had like Torres and later Suarez. We've been rebuilding organically ever since, using our own resources and wits to get ahead and have done well to come on top of a team in City that has had it very easy in comparison.
Making losses per season so huge that they could buy 10 league one clubs, and for 3 years too, that's a rocket boost and its why you've been able to challenge on all fronts for the following years. How can you argue otherwise? Are we just gonna pretend it didn't happen or what?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like cheese. What the hell have you got against cheese?
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
-----
I was making a point by mentioning the gap in relation to City's squad issues. How is that projecting? I just don't want to keep defending myself or my intentions as I feel I'm making honest arguments.
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
-----
I was making a point by mentioning the gap in relation to City's squad issues. How is that projecting? I just don't want to keep defending myself or my intentions as I feel I'm making honest arguments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you think you are arguing that with...?
Don't have to be arguing to make a point.
And like i said, what the hell have you got against cheese?
Sign in if you want to comment
LFC Champions! (& note to Man City)
Page 5 of 5
posted on 30/6/20
The point about squad value is your argument is about squad quality and depth. In that context, whatever you paid for someone initially is irrelevant, as that’s a different argument about the quality of the squad building. It’s not as if TAA doesn’t exist because you didn’t pay for him. Nor is a 60m or a 50m defender relevant if they aren’t available. If you think we’ve got as much depth as you (or even United tbh) in either centre defence or centre midfield, then it’s not my opinion that’s the outlier.
Let’s leave it though mamba, we’ll clearly disagree on it and I’m not up for going even further into false equivalence as the cycle will never break. Fairly sure someone has done a squad breakdown article on here recently though, think it might be worth you reading that if you want to break out of it yourself though. I’d also say you’re 23 points clear, no ones been competing with you in the league for about five months now.
posted on 30/6/20
You're being dishonest by repeatedly bringing up current values. I'm sure you know those breakdowns dont matter. Were talking about City being able to challenge on all fronts for years and you keep bringing up current squad values. Its irrelevant and a bit desperate tbh because it clearly doesn't make sense. What will matter more is initial values of course.
TAA would likely not have made it at City as they prefer to buy ready made players. He would have had a couple of 50m players ahead of him in the line up. You need to look up and study the circumstances that forced Liverpool to put their hope in the likes of TAA. These are not problems City have.
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project. Its too easy to say 'you have TAA now' and compare him to a player at City as if we didn't need years to build him. Meanwhile City buy ready players, often amongst the best in the league/world in their position and dominate all the competitions.
At what point would a City fan just admit that the Sheikhs money has been an advantage and its why they can do what other teams can't? Its not a pop. Its a fact. Trying to make out like circumstances are similar or close to similar is astonishing and baffling denial of fact IMO. Its shouldn't even be debatable. Only in football.
Liverpool and City couldn't be more different in the manner in which they have arrived at success.
posted on 30/6/20
Like I said, you’re creating a false narrative and equivalence and putting words in my mouth on top now (I hope just to try and deflect away from the initial point as that’s better than the alternative), so let’s leave it there.
posted on 30/6/20
This is how it always goes. Everytime either I've done this or I've done that. You focus on my persona because you just can't address the points raised because its true and you're the one coming up with a false narrative and trying to revise/erase history.
Better off leaving it there as there's nothing more to say as far as I can see.
posted on 30/6/20
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
posted on 30/6/20
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project.
----------------------------------
Remind me how much Foden cost us.
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
posted on 30/6/20
It’s completely irrelevant to the point being discussed in the first place anyway. That’s exactly what I mean, the debates turned into something else. I’m ok with that, that happens but don’t project at the same time, that’s just ridiculous.
posted on 30/6/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 13 minutes ago
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were discussing City's ability to challenge in all fronts in the last few years. Again, what does that have to do with City's current squad depth?
"I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted"
Completely irrelevant and nobody asked you to do that tbh.
City were the best team ever last season. These problems you highlight are not unique to City and cannot account for being 25 points behind. In fact City are the best placed team of all to deal with these issues and yet you purport to rely on them against other teams who are worse off. Its insane.
Doesn't matter if you've said it all season, its still a weak excuse. I haven't changed any criteria mate.
posted on 30/6/20
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 16 minutes ago
Its taken patience and planning for TAA to come good and City don't do that kind of project.
----------------------------------
Remind me how much Foden cost us.
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Foden
Good player but is this supposed to prove that City and Liverpool have been operating under similar conditions?
We also bought David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Kompany combined for less than United paid for Pogba.
-----
Look how desperate your points are. Do I even need to go into this? How many years passed between these guys and Pogba? I could go on.
How is cherry picking a stat going to change what everyone bar City fans can see clearly?
posted on 30/6/20
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
-----
What an allegation to make.
The reverse is true. You want to make out like City were badly compromised so as to take the shine off Liverpools destruction of City in this year's title race, if you can even call it that tbh.
I'd say Liverpool defeated City not just on the pitch but also mentally, peeling away the air of invincibility and forcing them to doubt themselves.
Trying to put it down to some squad problems which everyone is facing anyway and while being a team that has benefitted from unprecedented levels of investment is a bit of a stretch.
Let's not forget that wages are also part of the value and City made a loss for three consecutive years after which they immediately started sweeping all the trophies.
posted on 30/6/20
In 2011 alone did City not report a calendar year loss of around £190m million? Whch was an increase of £70m on the previous year? Just read that again slowly.
If Liverpool did this and did not dominate for years thereafter I'd be pretty disappointed. During the same period, Liverpool recorded record losses with no rich owner to bail out the club. We wanted Aguero for a long time apparently, and he said some good things about us but I remember we couldn't afford sheet and City came in and just paid the money.
Liverpool escaped administration, lost opportunities to sign top players and lost top players we already had like Torres and later Suarez. We've been rebuilding organically ever since, using our own resources and wits to get ahead and have done well to come on top of a team in City that has had it very easy in comparison.
Making losses per season so huge that they could buy 10 league one clubs, and for 3 years too, that's a rocket boost and its why you've been able to challenge on all fronts for the following years. How can you argue otherwise? Are we just gonna pretend it didn't happen or what?
posted on 30/6/20
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 13 minutes ago
I’ve not said anything about your persona. It’s not exactly a debate when you keep changing the criteria though. I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted when I’ve been saying all season that we haven’t and been critical of exactly that issue just so you can make out an incredible achievement is even better than it is.
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were discussing City's ability to challenge in all fronts in the last few years. Again, what does that have to do with City's current squad depth?
"I’m not going to suddenly start saying that we’ve got squad depth sorted"
Completely irrelevant and nobody asked you to do that tbh.
City were the best team ever last season. These problems you highlight are not unique to City and cannot account for being 25 points behind. In fact City are the best placed team of all to deal with these issues and yet you purport to rely on them against other teams who are worse off. Its insane.
Doesn't matter if you've said it all season, its still a weak excuse. I haven't changed any criteria mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have, read back through this thread and the initial point that started this conversation. We were talking about prioritising cups and the point was we do it regardless. I’ve even said a few times we’ve had both a bigger and better squad in previous seasons.
They don’t solely account for us being 25 points behind either, I’ve never said it has, that wasn’t even what we were talking about. There’s been plenty of other reasons for that.
Why are we the best equipped this season? We are the best equipped to fix it (cl ban outstanding) for the future, it doesn’t change us having an issue right now with our main spine for pretty much the last decade coming to an end and us not having enough cover in certain areas.
It’s still our fault, I don’t see how me being critical of the club is an excuse. An excuse would be to blame exterior motives surely, I’m giving a reason, a reason that was obvious even before the season started. It doesn’t detract from others.
posted on 30/6/20
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can do that if you want to absolutely, fill your boots. A disingenuous debate about it isn’t interesting though.
-----
What an allegation to make.
The reverse is true. You want to make out like City were badly compromised so as to take the shine off Liverpools destruction of City in this year's title race, if you can even call it that tbh.
I'd say Liverpool defeated City not just on the pitch but also mentally, peeling away the air of invincibility and forcing them to doubt themselves.
Trying to put it down to some squad problems which everyone is facing anyway and while being a team that has benefitted from unprecedented levels of investment is a bit of a stretch.
Let's not forget that wages are also part of the value and City made a loss for three consecutive years after which they immediately started sweeping all the trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
You’re also now giving a solitary reason yourself for it happening despite me never even arguing or providing any other reason.
I’m fine with having a debate about what I say and in good faith. I have absolutely zero interest in either disingenuous ones or ones I’m not even making in the first place.
posted on 30/6/20
Yes you have, read back through this thread and the initial point that started this conversation. We were talking about prioritising cups and the point was we do it regardless.
------
Regardless of what? Either you have a big squad full of quality or you don't. You can't have the squad and then use all these mitigating factors to make out like having a superior squad isn't actually an advantage.
So at some point some players get injured. Isn't that why you have the largest most expensive squad? Isn't this aimed at achieveing success? And has it not worked a charm? If you have a big squad you don't need to prioritise because of injuries, that's the point of having a big squad in the first place.
Can you say you didn't prioritise maybe when players were injured? You don't prioritise because those injured players would be available at a later date when recovered, and those who play today can rest later and so on, therefore you can use a strong team in every game.
posted on 30/6/20
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 11 minutes ago
In 2011 alone did City not report a calendar year loss of around £190m million? Whch was an increase of £70m on the previous year? Just read that again slowly.
If Liverpool did this and did not dominate for years thereafter I'd be pretty disappointed. During the same period, Liverpool recorded record losses with no rich owner to bail out the club. We wanted Aguero for a long time apparently, and he said some good things about us but I remember we couldn't afford sheet and City came in and just paid the money.
Liverpool escaped administration, lost opportunities to sign top players and lost top players we already had like Torres and later Suarez. We've been rebuilding organically ever since, using our own resources and wits to get ahead and have done well to come on top of a team in City that has had it very easy in comparison.
Making losses per season so huge that they could buy 10 league one clubs, and for 3 years too, that's a rocket boost and its why you've been able to challenge on all fronts for the following years. How can you argue otherwise? Are we just gonna pretend it didn't happen or what?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like cheese. What the hell have you got against cheese?
posted on 30/6/20
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
-----
I was making a point by mentioning the gap in relation to City's squad issues. How is that projecting? I just don't want to keep defending myself or my intentions as I feel I'm making honest arguments.
posted on 30/6/20
comment by * and Obelix - Super Duper World Euro Champ19ns (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Right, so do you not understand how you are being saying I’m saying that’s the sole reason for something happening that we weren’t even talking about and when I also literally saying it isn’t? I haven’t even mentioned reasons for the gap in the league to you, this is entirely you projecting. It’s either being disingenuous or being fecking moronic.
-----
I was making a point by mentioning the gap in relation to City's squad issues. How is that projecting? I just don't want to keep defending myself or my intentions as I feel I'm making honest arguments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you think you are arguing that with...?
posted on 1/7/20
Don't have to be arguing to make a point.
posted on 1/7/20
And like i said, what the hell have you got against cheese?
posted on 2/7/20
Global warming.
Page 5 of 5