Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I agree wholeheartedly with the entire article, OP.
If anything, it’s unfair to restrict clubs in the way that FFP does.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules, particularly when an organisation like UEFA are involved.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do you draw the line though?
FFP is dead now anyway. Everyone knows UEFA can do nothing about clubs breaking their rules as they can’t enforce them.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do you draw the line though?
FFP is dead now anyway. Everyone knows UEFA can do nothing about clubs breaking their rules as they can’t enforce them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t mean the clubs, I mean in our judgement as fans, that’s all.
Given the amount of sponsorship money alleged to be inflated paid for only half of Wilfried Bony, I’d argue we were punished for it anyway...
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easily said as a United and Liverpool fan though.
Technically you’re correct but that doesn’t mean that the judgement from opposition fans should necessarily be as harsh as it is.
I do find it odd that people don’t call for some of the clubs promoted to the premier league to be penalised too with such vitriol, given some of them did fail and were proved to, it’s just that the gamble paid off for them
Welsh,
Those other clubs may well not have been able to afford it anyway.
It’s a myopic view that you are essentially stating.
An unfair advantage is absolutely part and parcel of football, especially because of the vast difference that can be had in football by virtue of finishing one place higher.
Finish 17th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 18th, but not much less than the team who finishes 16th.
Finish 4th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 5th.
Finish 1st and you won’t earn that much more than the team who finished 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easily said as a United and Liverpool fan though.
Technically you’re correct but that doesn’t mean that the judgement from opposition fans should necessarily be as harsh as it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree with you, football fans are not always the most level-headed and unbiased group.
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 1 minute ago
Welsh,
Those other clubs may well not have been able to afford it anyway.
It’s a myopic view that you are essentially stating.
An unfair advantage is absolutely part and parcel of football, especially because of the vast difference that can be had in football by virtue of finishing one place higher.
Finish 17th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 18th, but not much less than the team who finishes 16th.
Finish 4th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 5th.
Finish 1st and you won’t earn that much more than the team who finished 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but there is the perception (rightly or wrongly) that those payments are merited. You finished 4th then you performed better at football than the team that finished 5th and so there is a justification for that increase in money.
Money correlates with success (although it isn't a guarantee) and it is probably the single biggest factor in why City have won 6 of the last 7 domestic trophies and could be on 7 out of 9 by the end of the season. Given that they have such a huge advantage already, you can understand why fans would he annoyed if it turned out that they had then also broken rules.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
But the increase in money isn’t consistent. Which is my point.
Finish first, and thus actually win the competition, doesn’t bring about a greater financial reward when it is compared to the financial benefit of finishing 4th instead of 5th. Or compared to the difference between finishing 17th and 18th.
The whole model in that respect is set up to reward participation in a completion than it is actually winning a competition. It’s why clubs will spend shed loads just to stay in the premier league, or just to remain in the champions league.
When reward is given just for competing, then it suggests that competition is a good thing. That simply competing is a good thing.
But then it’s seen as a bad thing to try and compete by spending money that you are able to invest in order to compete!
My point is that the rules themselves should be questioned, more so than a suspicion that you have broken the rules.
City have had the ban overturned. Yet people are still maintaining their own narrative that City have cheated. The thing they are intent on maintaining is the one thing that hasn’t been proven.
It even if it was, ask yourself, what is so wrong about that? When that is exactly what every single other big club has done in the past (when it wasn’t against the rules) and is the very thing that every single big club has benefited from (when it wasn’t against the rules)
And then ask yourself, why it seems to be the fans of the biggest clubs who are the ones who are most vocal about the announcement today?
Could it possibly be because the clubs they support have the most to lose?
And if that’s the case, then your point about all those other clubs who did adhere to the rules doesn’t really ring true. Because those clubs, with or without the current ffp rules being in place, wouldn’t have been able to compete anyway.
... unless they had a rich owner...
To be fair, other clubs absolutely have in the past, it was the setting up of plcs and holding companies against the rules at the time that ultimately paved the way for us to end up where we have done.
That’s a lengthy topic for another time though. For now, it’s a moot point anyway since CAS have ruled we weren’t cheating
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I will say this.
If anyone thinks that there is only one club (who has been in the spotlight) of cooking the books in their favour, or to put it less controversially, doing some creative accounting, then I would say that they are being naive.
This was always going to happen regardless of what the result was today, for many the narrative is already set. There has been some decent discussion on here today too tbf
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8518971/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Man-City-lost-appeal-against-European-ban-CRUSHED.html?login¶m_code=AQBeIjzoy5jDBpzwtlzvVFY8sOl4l_wrOBfFtD4xkRxQ0UF-62Y93asDQCHsnVBgJ83UOnqc1KDEPKOnXnR5fazzQ8FuXliUBv0UGUZ5XqfAvQvWEGrE0h0FP7Bm-e0Pbrhs8eH1JPX0zw4VLqMjH9rFJkSvHnem9oQEEPN4h1Rp7B-QQlcl_nc10E27HHvg6gzTXMxatK6Cvy6r7fz1BRDlzsheo2_GThbIj9JRE-rUNhgWysO0A8pVb4a0qpqTGMXF1W34ngz4S4MPW_aDklU8U22rKJBDfVvfj-acm45y1pfMfpF7Mf5gy2LnYpPe7Ntz36YMcSt0UcgZK_h5szDC¶m_state=eyJyZW1lbWJlck1lIjpmYWxzZX0%3D¶m__host=www.dailymail.co.uk¶m_geolocation=gb&base_fe_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2F&validation_fe_uri=%2Fregistration%2Fp%2Fapi%2Ffield%2Fvalidation%2F&check_user_fe_uri=registration%2Fp%2Fapi%2Fuser%2Fuser_check%2F&isMobile=false#readerCommentsCommand-message-field
lol, trying to defend the indefensible.
Grubby little cheats.
Only a moron could fail to understand that the verdict clearly shows that City did not cheat. But I see that there are a few on here.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
Can't be bothered with Automatic.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 3 hours, 36 minutes ago
Can't be bothered with Automatic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Made up his mind ages ago and too little cognitive ability to deal with a judgement that deals in facts rather than his narrow minded agenda.
Sizzle campaigns about black kids being stopped by the police because they 'might' be up to no good but he's quite happy to slate City despite being found innocent by an independent court hearing.
Using his bizzare logic, the black youths should be arrested then left to rot until they prove they didn't do anything wrong.
Sign in if you want to comment
The ruling today
Page 1 of 2
posted on 13/7/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/7/20
I agree wholeheartedly with the entire article, OP.
If anything, it’s unfair to restrict clubs in the way that FFP does.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules, particularly when an organisation like UEFA are involved.
posted on 13/7/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do you draw the line though?
FFP is dead now anyway. Everyone knows UEFA can do nothing about clubs breaking their rules as they can’t enforce them.
posted on 13/7/20
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Sometimes you have to look beyond the rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do you draw the line though?
FFP is dead now anyway. Everyone knows UEFA can do nothing about clubs breaking their rules as they can’t enforce them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t mean the clubs, I mean in our judgement as fans, that’s all.
posted on 13/7/20
Given the amount of sponsorship money alleged to be inflated paid for only half of Wilfried Bony, I’d argue we were punished for it anyway...
posted on 13/7/20
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
posted on 13/7/20
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easily said as a United and Liverpool fan though.
Technically you’re correct but that doesn’t mean that the judgement from opposition fans should necessarily be as harsh as it is.
posted on 13/7/20
I do find it odd that people don’t call for some of the clubs promoted to the premier league to be penalised too with such vitriol, given some of them did fail and were proved to, it’s just that the gamble paid off for them
posted on 13/7/20
Welsh,
Those other clubs may well not have been able to afford it anyway.
It’s a myopic view that you are essentially stating.
An unfair advantage is absolutely part and parcel of football, especially because of the vast difference that can be had in football by virtue of finishing one place higher.
Finish 17th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 18th, but not much less than the team who finishes 16th.
Finish 4th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 5th.
Finish 1st and you won’t earn that much more than the team who finished 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th.
posted on 13/7/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
It depends on what the documents show and what people want to believe other clubs are doing. Whilst people can have their suspicions, at the moment all the other clubs are assumed to be following the FFP rules. If the documents show no evidence of wrongdoing then City will also be in this category. If, however, it shows that they just got out of it because of the statute of limitations then people will remain convinced they cheated.
The reason it matters is because if other teams are playing by the rules and City weren't then they are gaining an unfair advantage not allowed to other teams. Whether one agrees with FFP or not, it was brought in and the clubs all agreed to abide by them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easily said as a United and Liverpool fan though.
Technically you’re correct but that doesn’t mean that the judgement from opposition fans should necessarily be as harsh as it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree with you, football fans are not always the most level-headed and unbiased group.
posted on 13/7/20
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 1 minute ago
Welsh,
Those other clubs may well not have been able to afford it anyway.
It’s a myopic view that you are essentially stating.
An unfair advantage is absolutely part and parcel of football, especially because of the vast difference that can be had in football by virtue of finishing one place higher.
Finish 17th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 18th, but not much less than the team who finishes 16th.
Finish 4th, and you will earn considerably more than the team who finished 5th.
Finish 1st and you won’t earn that much more than the team who finished 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but there is the perception (rightly or wrongly) that those payments are merited. You finished 4th then you performed better at football than the team that finished 5th and so there is a justification for that increase in money.
Money correlates with success (although it isn't a guarantee) and it is probably the single biggest factor in why City have won 6 of the last 7 domestic trophies and could be on 7 out of 9 by the end of the season. Given that they have such a huge advantage already, you can understand why fans would he annoyed if it turned out that they had then also broken rules.
posted on 13/7/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 13/7/20
But the increase in money isn’t consistent. Which is my point.
Finish first, and thus actually win the competition, doesn’t bring about a greater financial reward when it is compared to the financial benefit of finishing 4th instead of 5th. Or compared to the difference between finishing 17th and 18th.
The whole model in that respect is set up to reward participation in a completion than it is actually winning a competition. It’s why clubs will spend shed loads just to stay in the premier league, or just to remain in the champions league.
When reward is given just for competing, then it suggests that competition is a good thing. That simply competing is a good thing.
But then it’s seen as a bad thing to try and compete by spending money that you are able to invest in order to compete!
My point is that the rules themselves should be questioned, more so than a suspicion that you have broken the rules.
City have had the ban overturned. Yet people are still maintaining their own narrative that City have cheated. The thing they are intent on maintaining is the one thing that hasn’t been proven.
It even if it was, ask yourself, what is so wrong about that? When that is exactly what every single other big club has done in the past (when it wasn’t against the rules) and is the very thing that every single big club has benefited from (when it wasn’t against the rules)
And then ask yourself, why it seems to be the fans of the biggest clubs who are the ones who are most vocal about the announcement today?
Could it possibly be because the clubs they support have the most to lose?
And if that’s the case, then your point about all those other clubs who did adhere to the rules doesn’t really ring true. Because those clubs, with or without the current ffp rules being in place, wouldn’t have been able to compete anyway.
... unless they had a rich owner...
posted on 13/7/20
To be fair, other clubs absolutely have in the past, it was the setting up of plcs and holding companies against the rules at the time that ultimately paved the way for us to end up where we have done.
That’s a lengthy topic for another time though. For now, it’s a moot point anyway since CAS have ruled we weren’t cheating
posted on 13/7/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 13/7/20
I will say this.
If anyone thinks that there is only one club (who has been in the spotlight) of cooking the books in their favour, or to put it less controversially, doing some creative accounting, then I would say that they are being naive.
posted on 13/7/20
This was always going to happen regardless of what the result was today, for many the narrative is already set. There has been some decent discussion on here today too tbf
posted on 13/7/20
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8518971/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Man-City-lost-appeal-against-European-ban-CRUSHED.html?login¶m_code=AQBeIjzoy5jDBpzwtlzvVFY8sOl4l_wrOBfFtD4xkRxQ0UF-62Y93asDQCHsnVBgJ83UOnqc1KDEPKOnXnR5fazzQ8FuXliUBv0UGUZ5XqfAvQvWEGrE0h0FP7Bm-e0Pbrhs8eH1JPX0zw4VLqMjH9rFJkSvHnem9oQEEPN4h1Rp7B-QQlcl_nc10E27HHvg6gzTXMxatK6Cvy6r7fz1BRDlzsheo2_GThbIj9JRE-rUNhgWysO0A8pVb4a0qpqTGMXF1W34ngz4S4MPW_aDklU8U22rKJBDfVvfj-acm45y1pfMfpF7Mf5gy2LnYpPe7Ntz36YMcSt0UcgZK_h5szDC¶m_state=eyJyZW1lbWJlck1lIjpmYWxzZX0%3D¶m__host=www.dailymail.co.uk¶m_geolocation=gb&base_fe_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2F&validation_fe_uri=%2Fregistration%2Fp%2Fapi%2Ffield%2Fvalidation%2F&check_user_fe_uri=registration%2Fp%2Fapi%2Fuser%2Fuser_check%2F&isMobile=false#readerCommentsCommand-message-field
posted on 14/7/20
lol, trying to defend the indefensible.
Grubby little cheats.
posted on 14/7/20
Only a moron could fail to understand that the verdict clearly shows that City did not cheat. But I see that there are a few on here.
posted on 14/7/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 14/7/20
Can't be bothered with Automatic.
posted on 14/7/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 14/7/20
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 3 hours, 36 minutes ago
Can't be bothered with Automatic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Made up his mind ages ago and too little cognitive ability to deal with a judgement that deals in facts rather than his narrow minded agenda.
posted on 14/7/20
Sizzle campaigns about black kids being stopped by the police because they 'might' be up to no good but he's quite happy to slate City despite being found innocent by an independent court hearing.
Using his bizzare logic, the black youths should be arrested then left to rot until they prove they didn't do anything wrong.
Page 1 of 2