Well after that abysmal performance yesterday, the new handball rule causing chaos and then the Saints losing in the NFL last night, I'm finally ready for a full national lockdown and sports to be cancelled again.

I think we just need to get our shape back, seeing Boly, Saiss, even Coady once bombing in to the opposition half is part of a more positive approach but its pulling the midfield out of shape. With the old approach everyone knew instinctively where each other were and knew their role.

Nuno can either persevere and try to evolve our play risking more performances like last night or revert as he did last season after the Chelsea defeat to a more risk averse policy.

That said the major frustration for me remains that when we have the ball in attacking positions about 70% of the time we go backwards rather than attacking the opposition box. We seem to looking for goldilocks situations (you'd think I would approve but no) in what should be attacking areas. Quite often we end up losing the ball anyway, just 60 yards closer to our own goal than we would if we'd taken a chance and put a ball in to their box.

I'm surprised by the comment that there was no evidence of us playing in a more aggressive way. From what I saw the back 3 all played further forward, in fact Coady made one run with the ball from around the penalty area to wwell over the half way line. That's the first time I have seen him bring the ball forward in that way since he was put in the centre of the back 3.
Another piece of evidence is that despite being outplayed we still had 63% possession of the ball.
For me it was easy to see what the problem was. Our back 3 do not have the pace to recover when played further up the pitch and were left horribly exposed, but for some fine work from Patricio, the result could have been much worse.
Nuno said after the game that the solution is within the squad and not in the transfer market so don't be expecting any more signings because it's not going the happen.
I have every confidence that Nuno will sort it out, we have been here before and bounced back and watching Semedo, Hoever and Silva yesterday I saw the potential that we have (but not necessarily in the positions they played yesterday)

I'm not sure the back three did play much further forward to be honest. We regularly did the same old thing of going from the opposition penalty area all the way back to Coady who was 10 yards inside our own half.


I think the thing that caused problems was how direct West Ham were. We all know that if a physical stiker presses onto Coady he struggles (I'm actually surprised more teams don't do this). They just put balls into channels either side of him and he didn't have the pace or strength to handle him. Our midfield lacks mobility and struggled to get back to support, leaving gaps which meant we struggled.


To be honest, I don't think our play will ever evolve whilst we play the back three, We will never control games with this system as it leaves the forward players isolated.

It is a relief to see people posting about our more attacking model. This was the difference yesterday.

I don't actually have a problem with that, and am actually encouraged to see Nuno trying to take the game to the opposition. Ultimately though you need the defence to do that, I think Boly and Saiss are capable, Coady to me is the weak link.

He is not a defender and he is slow, and struggled in his new responsibilities. I think if we are going to play this way, someone like Hoever might be more capable and able to be molded into that role.

There were some positives from yesterday, but it was mostly about the ambition more than it's application.

I find it worrying that people only relate it to 'a more attacking model' and don't link it to some of the problems we have seen with this system previously.

Tamwolf no system is perfect. If we play more defensive, we will keep more clean sheets, but won't score as many.

If we come out a bit more like yesterday, we should in theory create more chances, but the defence will suffer.

As a manger you have to balance defence and attack, based around the capabilities of the squad. If we want to continue pushing further up, then an upgraded defence, or at least Coady will be needed.

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
Followed by posts from you about him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1 post shouldn’t be referred to in the plural

I thought Neto was a real positive from yesterday. He is growing in strength and confidence and looks set to become a top player.

I do think we need another centre back. Whether that will be Marcal time will tell but if so we would need an upgrade on Vinagre. Saiss was at fault for two of the goals yesterday and was getting turned too easily. Antonio was actually bullying him more than Coady to me. Boly has never looked as comfortable on the right of the back three as he used to on the left so I would like us to bring in someone for the right side.

Up front we regularly saw the problems I was referring to last week where we get into good positions but then find only Jimenez in the opposing area. Against three centre backs he is unlikely to get a look in and we must get more support to him in those areas

Neto was the only real positive from yesterday.

Semedo looked a good player, but didn't look like he knew what he was supposed to be doing or where he was supposed to be playing. Saiss and Coady looked like midfielders playing out of position. Moutinho and Neves didn't have the mobility to provide support when it was needed. Traore and Jimenez were easily crowded out by the oppositions back five.

Hopefully we'll see Hoever in the back three next week, with Podence back (we really missed him) and some changes in midfield. I think we need to play Dendoncker to provide some more mobility in that area.

I agree with some of that tam. I would prefer to see Dendoncker than Moutinho nowadays and I thought Semedo did fine in his first game.

Defensively yesterday we were poor but over the last two seasons the defence has been a strong point and Coady and Saiss have played their part in that. Both are far better in the back three than in midfield in my opinion. If Hoever could come in and do a job on the right of the back 3 that would save us a few million

As a by the way we finished 7th last season and despite a few changes and a poor result yesterday we haven’t become a poor team overnight. Last season after 6 games we were one off the bottom of the table with 4 points. I’ll wager we’ll be in a better position after 6 games this season

I think Saiss has done a good job, but he really should not still be a first choice centre back 9 months after we loaned Bennett out.

I would prefer to see Bennett there over him long term if we are not upgrading the position.

Spangles you are like a breath of fresh air. and are far more realistic than some I could mention.

Nuno is tinkering, the fans need to have patience and show some faith. Like you said we have not become a bad team. Far from it.

I seem to be the only one on here that wasn't overly impressed with Neto yesterday. Possibly he was the best of a very bad bunch but, for me, he looks like a cross between Jota when he was starting out and Traore about 18 months ago. Plenty of exciting runs but with his head down and then no end result.

I do believe he will become a good player in time but there is still a long way to go. At the moment I'd say Podence is a long way ahead of Neto.

Amiga still has an overinflated view of his own opinion I see.

comment by Wulfrunnut (U17298)
posted 4 minutes ago
I seem to be the only one on here that wasn't overly impressed with Neto yesterday. Possibly he was the best of a very bad bunch but, for me, he looks like a cross between Jota when he was starting out and Traore about 18 months ago. Plenty of exciting runs but with his head down and then no end result.

I do believe he will become a good player in time but there is still a long way to go. At the moment I'd say Podence is a long way ahead of Neto.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Podence is the best of the 'wide forwards' at the moment. We definitely missed him yesterday. He seems to have a knack for popping up in pockets of space and adding an intensity and better tempo to how we play.

I agree with a lot that has been said above and I'm sure that given a few weeks on the training ground and some time for Nuno to mull over the problems in his head we will see far better performances than yesterday's. I applaud Nuno for trying to change things, a lot of fans on this forum have remarked that our style of play has become too predictable and obviously Nuno thinks so too. If everyone is fit next weekend (excluding Jonny of course) I would like to see us start against Fulham with something like this:

Patricio
Hoever, Coady, Boly
Semedo, Marcal
Dendoncker, Neves
Neto, Jimenez, Podence

It's an opinion Tam. Overinflated is yours.

I accept what you are saying about Neto, wulfrun, but to me he looked the most likely to make something happen in the attacking third yesterday. He is still an inexperienced player whereas Podence is 4 years older and had good experience at Olympiakos. Podence offers more at the moment but I suspect Neto will be a bigger star by the time he is 24

comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 40 minutes ago
It's an opinion Tam. Overinflated is yours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not the one telling everyone they are unrealistic or giving more value to opinions that agree with my own.

I'd take that starting eleven Gem. I've been advocating for a while now for Boly to go back on the left. Now we have two more right sided players, perhaps it will happen.

Tamwolf, If you don't like the fact there are certain opinions I value more than others, then that is your problem.

comment by GeminMallorca Wenger sort out VAR FFS! (U18318)
posted about an hour ago
I agree with a lot that has been said above and I'm sure that given a few weeks on the training ground and some time for Nuno to mull over the problems in his head we will see far better performances than yesterday's. I applaud Nuno for trying to change things, a lot of fans on this forum have remarked that our style of play has become too predictable and obviously Nuno thinks so too. If everyone is fit next weekend (excluding Jonny of course) I would like to see us start against Fulham with something like this:

Patricio
Hoever, Coady, Boly
Semedo, Marcal
Dendoncker, Neves
Neto, Jimenez, Podence
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd go with that if we are staying with the current formation.

In general though, I would like us to move away from the back three eventually. I think the main thing stopping that is loyalty to Coady though, who would struggle to get a game in any other formation.

comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tamwolf, If you don't like the fact there are certain opinions I value more than others, then that is your problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

And if you don't like me calling it out, that is your problem.