comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 11 minutes ago
It’s shocking seeing our full back options compared to others

Spurs actually have some good attacking full backs and together cost less than AWB.
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Wouldn’t be as frustrating if Ole knew what he was doing with the midfield and AWB didn’t have league one technique.

comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 28 minutes ago
It's all well and good signing some better players with the likes of Bruno Fernandes, Donny van de Beek and now potentially Sancho, but there is little/no point if you don't have a top manager managing and improving these players. I don't see Ole as that manager, not even close.

Interesting how people are starting to ask questions regarding Pep at City about how many players has he improved over the last 12-18 months? I'd argue the likes of Sterling, De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva have had their games taken to the next level, but struggling after that really. Same question asked about Ole, he's been here a while now, how many names can you rattle off saying he's improved their game?

When you compare it with what Poch did with players like Kane, Son, Alli (at one point), Walker, Rose etc. Even looking at Ancelotti now with players like Calvert-Lewin for example. You need a top manager to manage the top players and to take the potentially top players to that level. Ole hasn't shown enough in my opinion to justify why he will do that.
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Martial, Fred and Rashford look like different players.

Matic also looks like a better player but that’s more about the system and the players around him than Ole and the coaching staff improving his game.

It’s difficult to judge Ole on improvements in the players when he’s working with Bruno, Maguire, AWB, Greenwood and Brandon, who are all new to the squad.

But the attack looks *miles* better than it ever did under Mourinho, and the midfield more consistent.

I wouldn't say it was a frightening performance.
It was more a pathetic display from arsenal than anything else.
They were just there for the run around.
Didn't close down a single player all night, didn't bother attacking.
Pathetic.
Leeds did far better.

The coaching staff’s piece de resistance has been Martial, by a country mile.

He was a shiiiiiiiiithouse number nine. I mean, painful to watch.

He made all the wrong decisions, he couldn’t hold the ball up, he couldn’t work in tight spaces, he couldn’t turn a man, link up consistently, or get quick shots off. His movement in the box, well, just ouch man. Just no.

There’s still a lot of work to do on his movement in the area, to be fair. He doesn’t always commit, and aerially he’s no threat. But if he still doesn’t look a natural, 23 goals and 7 assists last season tells a story in itself.

They may look like different players, but not top players imo. I still firmly believe United need a top manager to improve these players because like I say, you can't get players to go to that next level under a manager who doesn't know how to do it.

I’m always skeptical to place too much credit on the coaching tor a player improving, especially where Martial’s role as a number 9 is concerned. I don’t think people give players enough credit for their failure and successes. People give managers and coaches far more credit than they deserve for when a player improves.

Martial should be a threat aerially.. not like he's a midget.
Needs to work on his jumping and heading.
Same as rashford.
They're both 6 foot or over.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’m always skeptical to place too much credit on the coaching tor a player improving, especially where Martial’s role as a number 9 is concerned. I don’t think people give players enough credit for their failure and successes. People give managers and coaches far more credit than they deserve for when a player improves.
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The credit has to be shared, of course.

Players can choose to listen to advice and instruction, work on the right areas, put the graft in, and do what they’re told on matchday, or otherwise.

With Martial, we’ve seen three different groups of coaches try to use him at nine. One has got a tune out of him, partly too because he stuck to a plan, and was determined to see it work. LVG and Mourinho tried it, didn’t like it/didn’t think it’d work (like me), and dropped it.

There’s also *far* too much focus on managers/head coaches. Ole isn’t actively coaching Martial and running his ball drills, etc. day-to-day. Various members of his staff are doing that.

I think for some players in some circumstances it can probably be as much about the relationship between a player and a particular specialist coach that can make the difference.

*partly because the head coach

But this is kind of the thing. Martial’s improved because he’s had the chance, and trust, of his manager to play regularly as a striker. He’s a very talented footballer, I don’t think it’s massively to do with coaching. This is true of so many players at so many clubs around the country.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 15 seconds ago
But this is kind of the thing. Martial’s improved because he’s had the chance, and trust, of his manager to play regularly as a striker. He’s a very talented footballer, I don’t think it’s massively to do with coaching. This is true of so many players at so many clubs around the country.
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Yeah, it’s without doubt part of it.

But you could see that he didn’t know how to use his body or arms to shield the ball with his back to goal, whether static or dropping off. He wasn’t making the right runs to pick up the ball deep in the half spaces or to get between the FB and CB on the edge of the box. You’d *never* see him get across his defender at the near post.

He hasn’t figured all that out himself.

All of the practice in those kind of situations with the ball at his feet has helped him help himself, of course. Practice, see what works, repeat, improve. But there are some areas of his game where he’s very clearly been instructed to his (great) benefit.

comment by Franko Cantona (U22187)
posted 12 hours, 8 minutes ago
Klopp has done an amazing job, total quality and the team are a reflection of him on the pitch.

Ole is a lovely fella but it’s a total mismatch if anybody thinks he can do the same.
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How do you know?

I don’t think it’s as big a part of it as him actually having the minutes to adapt to playing that position. I still don’t think United are a very well coached team, but there’s been quite a lot of individual improvements under Ole. And that’s down to trust and game time more than anything they’re doing on the training field.

Either way, I still stand by my point. Managers get far too much credit for an individual’s performances.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don’t think it’s as big a part of it as him actually having the minutes to adapt to playing that position. I still don’t think United are a very well coached team, but there’s been quite a lot of individual improvements under Ole. And that’s down to trust and game time more than anything they’re doing on the training field.

Either way, I still stand by my point. Managers get far too much credit for an individual’s performances.
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Managers, absolutely agreed.

The lion’s share of the credit should be on the coaching staff and the player.

Yeah but more so players. I find it weird that the most important people in football have their impact so underrated.

comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Martial should be a threat aerially.. not like he's a midget.
Needs to work on his jumping and heading.
Same as rashford.
They're both 6 foot or over.
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This is applicable to most of our team. Pogba and Matic in the midfield and Lindelof and AWB at the back.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 53 minutes ago
But this is kind of the thing. Martial’s improved because he’s had the chance, and trust, of his manager to play regularly as a striker. He’s a very talented footballer, I don’t think it’s massively to do with coaching. This is true of so many players at so many clubs around the country.
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I don’t disagree with you here but far to often you see the flip side where the coaching gets blamed for the lack of progress of a player.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Martial should be a threat aerially.. not like he's a midget.
Needs to work on his jumping and heading.
Same as rashford.
They're both 6 foot or over.
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This is applicable to most of our team. Pogba and Matic in the midfield and Lindelof and AWB at the back.

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Pogba (in particular) and Matic actually do a lot of very important work aerially defensively from set pieces.

In the middle of the park and from an attacking perspective, probably not enough.

Pogba (in particular) and Matic actually do a lot of very important work aerially defensively from set pieces.

.......

Yes and no because both have often been guilty of switching off and we have conceded goals from it.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
I’m always skeptical to place too much credit on the coaching tor a player improving, especially where Martial’s role as a number 9 is concerned. I don’t think people give players enough credit for their failure and successes. People give managers and coaches far more credit than they deserve for when a player improves.
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It's interesting when you hear players explain how coaches/managers have helped them improve. I know footballers aren't always the most forthcoming or articulate, but I'm sure I remember Sterling saying how Pep taught him to control the ball with the inside of his foot and not the outside so he was ready to play it with the next touch, or something like that. I remember thinking: "Really?"

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 9 minutes ago
Pogba (in particular) and Matic actually do a lot of very important work aerially defensively from set pieces.

.......

Yes and no because both have often been guilty of switching off and we have conceded goals from it.
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Just checked the stats and interestingly enough, per game, Matic was in the top 20 PL midfielders (of 70 or so with the min apps filter I used) in clearances last season, but Pogba wasn’t. Possibly due to playing further up the pitch.

*But* McT was just outside the top ten.

But there’s no doubt they do help them improve. I just think some overstate it. There’s a limit to what a manager and coaches can do to help players, it’s still up to them to go out and do the business on the pitch. Every manager and coach acknowledges this as well.

Coaching is an interesting concept.

Those of us who have played the game should have all been coached that when marking a player you should be goal side of him.

AWB and Victor seem to have been playing hooky during these lessons.

Phrases I remember from playing football as a kid:

"You can't kick it through people."
"Don't let the ball bounce."
"Never pass back to the keeper on target."
"Don't play the ball across your own box."
"Keep it simple."
"Get goal-side of him."

The last two are definitely ones some of our players could do better.

Coaching methods have changed quite a bit I suspect. Not playing the ball across goal being one given how defenders are being coaching to play out from the back.