comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP
By my count there were eight different people on the other thread, some of them not even United fans, and yet you continue to ignore all explanations, why exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i cant reply after a 5 yr old took the easy option and filtered me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was obviously right to filter you as you have completely ignored all the explanations given to you. If you don’t understand how basic economics work then it is best you don’t display your ignorance for the site to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand fine ..... Barca do have the money to complete deals otherwise the players wouldnt leave the selling club.
As I have said multiple times FFP and salary caps are a different argument.
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
"How can La Liga allow them to spend the money they don’t have to complete these transfers"
is the cry from fans.
doesnt make sense to me , why is ok for one team to spend others money and not others?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t read all the way through the other thread, but I was also drawn to the statement you quoted.
The very first question that sprang to mind is: even though I’m aware of LaLiga’s revenue-linked salary cap, what actual authority does LaLiga have over player transfers? Aren’t those matters under the responsibility of FIFA and the national FAs?
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly. All so they can keep kicking the can for the next few years. They are in a league of their own when it comes to awful financial management
For the TV rights it's a case of them getting 200 mill now, and even if their TV rights amount doesn't increase (which it will) they pay back 400 million (16m a season at current rates)
I don't get how la liga let them sign ANYONE but the app they register players on just refuses to allow them to register the player until the wage bill is in order. Seems a bit strange.
Even their Spotify deal hasn't helped them.much and that crazy money too. Sold rights % to merch, sold rights % to TV revenue and sold rights % for studio. Add that to the Spotify deal and it's mad how badly they've been managed. Showing no signs of changing anytime.soon.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cos it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
I didnt say they are the same.
I dont necessarily think they should be able to do what they are but thats isnt down to just being in debt and "not having the money to complete deals"
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 9 minutes ago
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly. All so they can keep kicking the can for the next few years. They are in a league of their own when it comes to awful financial management
For the TV rights it's a case of them getting 200 mill now, and even if their TV rights amount doesn't increase (which it will) they pay back 400 million (16m a season at current rates)
I don't get how la liga let them sign ANYONE but the app they register players on just refuses to allow them to register the player until the wage bill is in order. Seems a bit strange.
Even their Spotify deal hasn't helped them.much and that crazy money too. Sold rights % to merch, sold rights % to TV revenue and sold rights % for studio. Add that to the Spotify deal and it's mad how badly they've been managed. Showing no signs of changing anytime.soon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I dont disagree with any of that
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cos it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
I didnt say they are the same.
I dont necessarily think they should be able to do what they are but thats isnt down to just being in debt and "not having the money to complete deals"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
granted the OP thread is a bit "triggery" .... but its just a thread.
And I can handle people opinion being different than mine without the need to throw the toys out the pram and become a filter queen
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
Again, I ask, could someone explain how LaLiga _can_ prevent them from signing players? They might -or might not, idk- be able to deny them registration to play in LaLiga, but how can they prevent them from holding the player’s transfer rights? Isn’t that a FIFA issue? Regardless of how FIFA works with national FAs on this business, the RFEF and LaLiga are separate entities, just as the FA and PL are.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you cant see it then i dont really care!
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 16 minutes ago
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dunno anything about the merch rights, but afaik it was 10% of their broadcasting rights.
What I do know is that even in their precarious situation, they have been backed by either Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan (the other was the backer for RM’s stadium rebuild), neither of which are generally in the business of pouring money down the drain.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
Again, I ask, could someone explain how LaLiga _can_ prevent them from signing players? They might -or might not, idk- be able to deny them registration to play in LaLiga, but how can they prevent them from holding the player’s transfer rights? Isn’t that a FIFA issue? Regardless of how FIFA works with national FAs on this business, the RFEF and LaLiga are separate entities, just as the FA and PL are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they can stop them registering the players if the players they are trying to register take their wage bill above the cap level. They cant directly say you cannot register this player but the register list must comply with the overall wage cap. Or thats what Im led to believe
Not a single mention of revenue, talk about selective presentation of facts.
Think I read on here Spurs are a billion in debt from the ground, unless you get free money like City ( think they even have a balance sheet deficit in their accounts) and previously Chelsea these are the financial models of most clubs.
Barcelona is so obviously different in that they are mortgaging future revenue, that is one greasy slope to be on plus they have deferred player wages from past seasons they cannot seem to reconcile but are agreeing deals for players they cannot financially register regardless of what they owe to existing employees.
comment by Franko Cantona 🏆 for ego only (U22187)
posted 9 seconds ago
Not a single mention of revenue, talk about selective presentation of facts.
Think I read on here Spurs are a billion in debt from the ground, unless you get free money like City ( think they even have a balance sheet deficit in their accounts) and previously Chelsea these are the financial models of most clubs.
Barcelona is so obviously different in that they are mortgaging future revenue, that is one greasy slope to be on plus they have deferred player wages from past seasons they cannot seem to reconcile but are agreeing deals for players they cannot financially register regardless of what they owe to existing employees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats because the thread isnt about sustainability or future revenues. Its about said Man Utd fans complaining about Barca completing transfer deals with money they dont have due to their debts. Whilst conveniently forgetting their on club has huge debts for whatever reason and can still complete deals.
Now if you wanna talk about FFP, salaray caps, future revenues, then feel free to create a thread about that, thats not what this thread is about.
Congrats OP, your bait has sorta worked.
To play in LaLiga, yes. But they can’t prevent them from owning a player’ transfer rights. If push really came to shove, Barcelona would register the players permitted and loan out the ones they couldn’t accommodate.
Aside from all this, I’m not even sure of the actual basis on which the salary cap functions. As far as I recall, a few years back it wasn’t exclusively linked to a club’ debt, but also to their revenues. The schidt properly hit the fan for Barça because of the massive drop in revenues due to Covid, but last season’s revenues will have been considerably higher, so presumably they will also have a bit more wiggle room as regards their salary cap.
I have no doubt that they’ll still have to resort to some creative accounting solutions with regard to arrears from prior seasons, but this isn’t the same BoD that created this awful mess, and it’s hard to imagine them being anywhere near its level of incompetence.
clubs have debt if the want, but if your club is in debt dont preach to other clubs in debt about their dealings.
If you wanna talk about Barca being dodgy prob looking to manipulate money to keep them going, or showing a lack of willing to adhere to FFP and salary caps , then as I said thats a different argument and one that I would most likely agree with you on.
You're pinpointing one part of the financial statements and saying that it's ironic that we are complaining about Barca's situation.
Doesn't work like that.
comment by Mr. McGibblets (Freedom FC) (U7214)
posted 2 minutes ago
Congrats OP, your bait has sorta worked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its a ja606 thread mate... im just having a bit of fun and stretching a bit of hypocrisy that was made, its really nothing major .... the very quick and "kind" responses then followed by a filter fairy was quite amusing however.
I guess what the OP is saying is that we shouldn't talk about another club's debt much like the fans of his club shouldn't criticise town centre thuggery. (Admittedly that was a different club which happened to share the same name).
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you cant see it then i dont really care!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one can see your point. You are just coming across as a tool.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 1 minute ago
Let's look at it from a bigger perspective: there's nothing wrong with having debt and spending money on transfers/salary.
BUT there's all kinds of wrong with the circumstances and (implied) risks for the general public.
Barca (and to a lesser extend Real) have had a huge bailout before by banks (risky loans, banks got their own bailouts with public money) and gov (buying up training ground for big bucks).
Real wisened up after that and is run like a profitable business (no more galactico era transfer windows), but Barca has double down and is now a creditcard/heroin junkie allways looking for their next fix. Knowing fully well that if something goes wrong (Corona, Monkeypox, financial downturn etc.) they always get a bailout due their the economic value to the region.
Sounds very much like banks in the 2008 subprime era doesn't it? I'm not even a Spanish citizen and I hate how Barca is run nowadays at the cost/risk of the ordinary man. I'm glad Cruyff didn't have to see all this, because he wouldn't be able to rest in peace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you agree with this, you must see why pretty much everybody (not just United fans) disagrees with you. The Barça he’s described is not really like United, is it? The two clubs’ situations are not really comparable, yet you’re calling United fans hypocritical for treating them differently. They are different.
As people have said, when United owe vast amounts of wages, are having to get rid of players and can’t register new ones, you will have a point. But this is far from the case.
I've got it. The op doesn't know the meaning of the word hypocritical.
Come now, being an original Rangers fan the OP ought to be well versed in the world of debt? I'm thinking of giving this 4*
Sign in if you want to comment
Barcelona - just as bad
Page 3 of 3
posted on 15/7/22
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP
By my count there were eight different people on the other thread, some of them not even United fans, and yet you continue to ignore all explanations, why exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i cant reply after a 5 yr old took the easy option and filtered me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was obviously right to filter you as you have completely ignored all the explanations given to you. If you don’t understand how basic economics work then it is best you don’t display your ignorance for the site to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand fine ..... Barca do have the money to complete deals otherwise the players wouldnt leave the selling club.
As I have said multiple times FFP and salary caps are a different argument.
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
"How can La Liga allow them to spend the money they don’t have to complete these transfers"
is the cry from fans.
doesnt make sense to me , why is ok for one team to spend others money and not others?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t read all the way through the other thread, but I was also drawn to the statement you quoted.
The very first question that sprang to mind is: even though I’m aware of LaLiga’s revenue-linked salary cap, what actual authority does LaLiga have over player transfers? Aren’t those matters under the responsibility of FIFA and the national FAs?
posted on 15/7/22
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
posted on 15/7/22
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly. All so they can keep kicking the can for the next few years. They are in a league of their own when it comes to awful financial management
For the TV rights it's a case of them getting 200 mill now, and even if their TV rights amount doesn't increase (which it will) they pay back 400 million (16m a season at current rates)
I don't get how la liga let them sign ANYONE but the app they register players on just refuses to allow them to register the player until the wage bill is in order. Seems a bit strange.
Even their Spotify deal hasn't helped them.much and that crazy money too. Sold rights % to merch, sold rights % to TV revenue and sold rights % for studio. Add that to the Spotify deal and it's mad how badly they've been managed. Showing no signs of changing anytime.soon.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cos it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
I didnt say they are the same.
I dont necessarily think they should be able to do what they are but thats isnt down to just being in debt and "not having the money to complete deals"
posted on 15/7/22
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 9 minutes ago
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly. All so they can keep kicking the can for the next few years. They are in a league of their own when it comes to awful financial management
For the TV rights it's a case of them getting 200 mill now, and even if their TV rights amount doesn't increase (which it will) they pay back 400 million (16m a season at current rates)
I don't get how la liga let them sign ANYONE but the app they register players on just refuses to allow them to register the player until the wage bill is in order. Seems a bit strange.
Even their Spotify deal hasn't helped them.much and that crazy money too. Sold rights % to merch, sold rights % to TV revenue and sold rights % for studio. Add that to the Spotify deal and it's mad how badly they've been managed. Showing no signs of changing anytime.soon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I dont disagree with any of that
posted on 15/7/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point is about completing transfers with money they dont have but clearly do in the same way that Man Utd do depsite being in massive debt
…..
Why bring United into it. Our situation and Barcelona’s are not the same which you have been told multiple times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cos it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
I didnt say they are the same.
I dont necessarily think they should be able to do what they are but thats isnt down to just being in debt and "not having the money to complete deals"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
granted the OP thread is a bit "triggery" .... but its just a thread.
And I can handle people opinion being different than mine without the need to throw the toys out the pram and become a filter queen
posted on 15/7/22
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
posted on 15/7/22
Again, I ask, could someone explain how LaLiga _can_ prevent them from signing players? They might -or might not, idk- be able to deny them registration to play in LaLiga, but how can they prevent them from holding the player’s transfer rights? Isn’t that a FIFA issue? Regardless of how FIFA works with national FAs on this business, the RFEF and LaLiga are separate entities, just as the FA and PL are.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you cant see it then i dont really care!
posted on 15/7/22
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 16 minutes ago
Barca have sold around 50% of their merch revenue and 25% of their TV rights, for the next 25 years apparenrly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dunno anything about the merch rights, but afaik it was 10% of their broadcasting rights.
What I do know is that even in their precarious situation, they have been backed by either Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan (the other was the backer for RM’s stadium rebuild), neither of which are generally in the business of pouring money down the drain.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
Again, I ask, could someone explain how LaLiga _can_ prevent them from signing players? They might -or might not, idk- be able to deny them registration to play in LaLiga, but how can they prevent them from holding the player’s transfer rights? Isn’t that a FIFA issue? Regardless of how FIFA works with national FAs on this business, the RFEF and LaLiga are separate entities, just as the FA and PL are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they can stop them registering the players if the players they are trying to register take their wage bill above the cap level. They cant directly say you cannot register this player but the register list must comply with the overall wage cap. Or thats what Im led to believe
posted on 15/7/22
Not a single mention of revenue, talk about selective presentation of facts.
Think I read on here Spurs are a billion in debt from the ground, unless you get free money like City ( think they even have a balance sheet deficit in their accounts) and previously Chelsea these are the financial models of most clubs.
Barcelona is so obviously different in that they are mortgaging future revenue, that is one greasy slope to be on plus they have deferred player wages from past seasons they cannot seem to reconcile but are agreeing deals for players they cannot financially register regardless of what they owe to existing employees.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by Franko Cantona 🏆 for ego only (U22187)
posted 9 seconds ago
Not a single mention of revenue, talk about selective presentation of facts.
Think I read on here Spurs are a billion in debt from the ground, unless you get free money like City ( think they even have a balance sheet deficit in their accounts) and previously Chelsea these are the financial models of most clubs.
Barcelona is so obviously different in that they are mortgaging future revenue, that is one greasy slope to be on plus they have deferred player wages from past seasons they cannot seem to reconcile but are agreeing deals for players they cannot financially register regardless of what they owe to existing employees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats because the thread isnt about sustainability or future revenues. Its about said Man Utd fans complaining about Barca completing transfer deals with money they dont have due to their debts. Whilst conveniently forgetting their on club has huge debts for whatever reason and can still complete deals.
Now if you wanna talk about FFP, salaray caps, future revenues, then feel free to create a thread about that, thats not what this thread is about.
posted on 15/7/22
Congrats OP, your bait has sorta worked.
posted on 15/7/22
To play in LaLiga, yes. But they can’t prevent them from owning a player’ transfer rights. If push really came to shove, Barcelona would register the players permitted and loan out the ones they couldn’t accommodate.
Aside from all this, I’m not even sure of the actual basis on which the salary cap functions. As far as I recall, a few years back it wasn’t exclusively linked to a club’ debt, but also to their revenues. The schidt properly hit the fan for Barça because of the massive drop in revenues due to Covid, but last season’s revenues will have been considerably higher, so presumably they will also have a bit more wiggle room as regards their salary cap.
I have no doubt that they’ll still have to resort to some creative accounting solutions with regard to arrears from prior seasons, but this isn’t the same BoD that created this awful mess, and it’s hard to imagine them being anywhere near its level of incompetence.
posted on 15/7/22
clubs have debt if the want, but if your club is in debt dont preach to other clubs in debt about their dealings.
If you wanna talk about Barca being dodgy prob looking to manipulate money to keep them going, or showing a lack of willing to adhere to FFP and salary caps , then as I said thats a different argument and one that I would most likely agree with you on.
posted on 15/7/22
You're pinpointing one part of the financial statements and saying that it's ironic that we are complaining about Barca's situation.
Doesn't work like that.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by Mr. McGibblets (Freedom FC) (U7214)
posted 2 minutes ago
Congrats OP, your bait has sorta worked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its a ja606 thread mate... im just having a bit of fun and stretching a bit of hypocrisy that was made, its really nothing major .... the very quick and "kind" responses then followed by a filter fairy was quite amusing however.
posted on 15/7/22
I guess what the OP is saying is that we shouldn't talk about another club's debt much like the fans of his club shouldn't criticise town centre thuggery. (Admittedly that was a different club which happened to share the same name).
posted on 15/7/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
it was a united fan that created a thread and said they shouldnt be able to complete tranfer deals when they dont have the money. I tried to debate him on it but got filtered hence had to create this thread.
…
You don’t have a point though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you cant see it then i dont really care!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one can see your point. You are just coming across as a tool.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 1 minute ago
Let's look at it from a bigger perspective: there's nothing wrong with having debt and spending money on transfers/salary.
BUT there's all kinds of wrong with the circumstances and (implied) risks for the general public.
Barca (and to a lesser extend Real) have had a huge bailout before by banks (risky loans, banks got their own bailouts with public money) and gov (buying up training ground for big bucks).
Real wisened up after that and is run like a profitable business (no more galactico era transfer windows), but Barca has double down and is now a creditcard/heroin junkie allways looking for their next fix. Knowing fully well that if something goes wrong (Corona, Monkeypox, financial downturn etc.) they always get a bailout due their the economic value to the region.
Sounds very much like banks in the 2008 subprime era doesn't it? I'm not even a Spanish citizen and I hate how Barca is run nowadays at the cost/risk of the ordinary man. I'm glad Cruyff didn't have to see all this, because he wouldn't be able to rest in peace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you agree with this, you must see why pretty much everybody (not just United fans) disagrees with you. The Barça he’s described is not really like United, is it? The two clubs’ situations are not really comparable, yet you’re calling United fans hypocritical for treating them differently. They are different.
As people have said, when United owe vast amounts of wages, are having to get rid of players and can’t register new ones, you will have a point. But this is far from the case.
posted on 15/7/22
I've got it. The op doesn't know the meaning of the word hypocritical.
posted on 15/7/22
Come now, being an original Rangers fan the OP ought to be well versed in the world of debt? I'm thinking of giving this 4*
Page 3 of 3