I think Ramos makes a lot of sense on loan. Gives us a striker that I think suits Amorims needs and we don’t need to commit which allows us to strengthen other areas. I think I read that Bruno has wanted him at the club.
I guess Osimhen is a bit like Sancho and Rashford in that his owners don’t want him but his wages + fee are a big stumbling block.
With the aim to win the PL by 2028 it really does depend what the plan is in terms of achieving that I think.
Gyokeres and Osimhen seem to be here and now forwards whereas Ekitike is, from what I've read of him, someone seemingly for now but more for the future.
Getting into the CL, and the money it brings, should accelerate any hopes of PL success in three years. Therefore, may we be tempted to go the here and now route with a forward or will be spend more evenly across the squad (although it's the first XI that needs improving rather than buying squad players IMO).
It's a big Summer I feel and I'm quite excited to see how the team will look come September.
To add. I have also all but given up on Hojlund but, if he does want to stay and fight for his place (credit to him for that), he really does need to be taken out of the firing line. Perhaps I'm being a bit unfair but I do think there's a touch of arrogance about him. Now that isn't a bad thing but I reckon he could do with being a bit more humble. He isn't half as bad as he showed last year IMO. Perhaps a more cohesive front three with Cunho and, hopefully, Mbeumo will help him?
If we can sell Hojlund then we should but if not then I do think a loan could be a very beneficial for him to help gain confident and get back to developing. If he can do that then we’re in a far stronger position to sell him next summer (or even consider keeping him).
I don’t think we should be thinking about winning the league by 2028, let’s concentrate on not being sh-t first.
I don't think Rasmus Højlund is the problem for you lot, nor do I think Zirkzee is the problem, I think their problem is the players around them, imagine they had MacAlister or Sabozolai, or Salah, or Gakpo, or Diaz playing around them, they would both be constantly in double figures for goals.
Diafol, the Hojlund of 23/24 looked as though he had tools that could develop into a very good player. If all we'd seen on him was the 24/25 version, I'd have no faith. Maybe there's a chance he can regain his confidence and refine his game if he's not first choice. From his point of view, I'd have thought he'd have a better chance of developing his career if he was playing regular football in a more forgiving environment.
Anyway, I think the club probably needs to be pragmatic this summer. Selling one of Zirkzee or Hojlund for ~£40m would give us some wiggle room to bring in players that are better suited or more ready to play for United. I'd like to see both of them grow into important players at our club, but I'd sell either at the right price, so it's really a case of waiting to see if anyone takes a nibble.
I don’t think we should be thinking about winning the league by 2028, let’s concentrate on not being sh-t first.
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It's useful to have medium term goals. If we want to win the league by 2028, that presupposes taking steps to rapidly improve each season between now and then. If we're just asking ourselves 'what moves can improve us as much as possible next season?', the answer would probably be to buy players who are currently at their peak, and are in decline and impossible to sell in a couple of years.
Not thinking about the years ahead is basically the Woodward-Murtough show.
True but Berrada also said we could win it by 2028 a year ago when we had a completely different manager playing a completely different way so I probably won't take much from what he says.
Aiming to not be sh-t might sound easy and short term but recent history has shown that isn't the case.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 16 seconds ago
True but Berrada also said we could win it by 2028 a year ago when we had a completely different manager playing a completely different way so I probably won't take much from what he says.
Aiming to not be sh-t might sound easy and short term but recent history has shown that isn't the case.
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I didn't say it sounded easy. You've alluded yourself to the fact that short-term solutions haven't worked out well in the past. Are you actually arguing that we're better off having no longer term goals and strategies? Or just expressing cynicism about the club being aspirational?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Diafol, the Hojlund of 23/24 looked as though he had tools that could develop into a very good player. If all we'd seen on him was the 24/25 version, I'd have no faith. Maybe there's a chance he can regain his confidence and refine his game if he's not first choice. From his point of view, I'd have thought he'd have a better chance of developing his career if he was playing regular football in a more forgiving environment.
Anyway, I think the club probably needs to be pragmatic this summer. Selling one of Zirkzee or Hojlund for ~£40m would give us some wiggle room to bring in players that are better suited or more ready to play for United. I'd like to see both of them grow into important players at our club, but I'd sell either at the right price, so it's really a case of waiting to see if anyone takes a nibble.
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With two goal scoring wide players/inside forwards (Cunha, Mbeumo + Amad & Bruno), there's possibly more of an argument for sticking with Zirkzee as a link player that won't necessarily get a hatful of goals himself, but who can knit things together for the others to provide the goals.
He did look increasingly up to speed with the PL by the time he did his hamstring (whereas earlier in the season you could see the technique & invention but the timing was well off).
I have no issue with having long term goals and hoping that one day soon we'll be fighting for a title but I'm also aware that the idea we could win the title in 3 seasons is pretty ridiculous considering we just had the our worst league season in over 50 years. I'm also very cynical about the club and what they can achieve while the Glazers are in charge as well as Ratcliffe, neither of which care about the club or their fans.
I admire your positivity but there really isn't much to suggest we will be winning the PL any time soon. Did you watch us last season, we were an embarrassment, aiming to not be that sh-t really isn't being that cynical.
Berbaking, I think the logic of Zirkzee as a false nine, with Rashford and Antony/Amad either side of him, made relatively good sense. Rashford's pace in behind, in particular, would offset Zirkzee's sluggishness, and in another timeline ZZ's ability to knit play together could have unlocked a lot of chances for him. I'm less confident about ZZ playing that role in Amorim's system - at least, it would mean substantially changing the way he set up attacks at Sporting. And buying Cunha (who doesn't have blistering pace) seems to me more like using the 10 as a ball carrying facilitator, rather than the one who runs in behind, fed by a centre forward who drops deep. But I'm obviously no expert.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
I have no issue with having long term goals and hoping that one day soon we'll be fighting for a title but I'm also aware that the idea we could win the title in 3 seasons is pretty ridiculous considering we just had the our worst league season in over 50 years. I'm also very cynical about the club and what they can achieve while the Glazers are in charge as well as Ratcliffe, neither of which care about the club or their fans.
I admire your positivity but there really isn't much to suggest we will be winning the PL any time soon. Did you watch us last season, we were an embarrassment, aiming to not be that sh-t really isn't being that cynical.
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I'm not being positive. I'm just trying to get my head around what constructive steps the front room leadership should be putting in place to improve the club as quickly as possible. Winning the title by 2028 clearly looks extremely ambitious and pretty unlikely. Does that mean it's misguided as a goal? Not necessarily, if the goal is a means to focus decision making at every level. It seems to me that winning a title depends most seasons on a fair bit of luck breaking in the eventual winner's favour. But if our club is seriously looking at a title challenge by 2028, then it needs to position itself to be realistically expecting to finish in the CL places that year. I think that is something United, given our resources, can achieve if we make a lot of good decisions and not too many bad ones. Crucially, those good decisions need to be coherent with an overall strategy that governs the game model, profile of players, when they are likely to collectively peak, etc. Unless they are madmen, I very much doubt that the sporting leadership see champions by 2028 as the absolute goal. It's the extreme aspirational end of a range of outcomes if everyone does their job well, and it's when this cycle of team building ought to reach maturity (Bruno, Cunha, and other senior players not yet over the hill, and youngsters coming into their prime years).
Again, I'm not skipping in the sunshine predicting that the glory days are around the corner. I'm just more interested in exploring what the club is doing than spending my life moaning about how sad it makes me feel supporting Manchester United.
It's not that Berrada should get a medal for framing the club's planning around a medium-term goal. This is what any professionally run club should be doing, and it's an indictment of the Glazer-Woodward regime that there's lots of evidence that they never bothered, and always thought they were one or two star signings away from being back in the big time. Years and years of abject complacency and unwillingness to think about longer-term strategy have taken us to this low point, which is I guess why I reacted snippily towards your dismissal of something that looks as though it might finally be a change in direction.
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
Our aim should be to rebuild the club the right way and the title challenge comes when we are ready.
I'd say an outside challenge before falling away come the end in 2028 is pushing it never mind actually winning the damn thing.
Not convinced this new management team are actually any better than what we had before really.
I think United best route is to get a decent striker in through a loan and obligation approach.
Where United are perhaps not able to rid themselves this summer of the deadwood, they know for sure that they only have to hold on to Sancho & Casemiro for another year and then their amortised cost and wages are off the books....that's about a £50m saving, and they may have more wriggle room in 12 months to pay for deals, if they can get those loans in now. You may also be a step closer to offloading Antony & Rashford permanently by that point too.
Whether you loan or buy probably is closely related to who you get out of the door. But i wouldnt look for a stop gap loan (unless the plan is for rasmus to become a decent striker in 12 months) because really you need to be integrating a new striker now and for the future, not now and then again next season.
I would see Osimhen, on loan, reasonable loan fee and an obligation to buy as probably the ideal option for Utd.
Spurs do this all the time. We only made Kulusevski permanent 2 seasons ago but have held him for 3.5. Porro, Danso, Romero all came in as proper targets which we paid for later. Tel's the same and he's an example of where we even managed to negotiate a lower fee than was agreed at the time of the loan. £5-8m loan fee, £30m further to buy. United could learn a lot from Spurs...we've been shopping and doing clever deals for years, in the way United now have to. Our problem is that's all we do and we could do with a bit more of United's willingness to buy 'stars'
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
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On what basis do you think that? Do you have experience of transforming an organisation from a culture of complacency and low performance into one of aspiration and excellence? Do you think the staff who presided over the last 12 years should be protected from feeling pressure to raise their game substantially? Do you think that the leadership should be telling the organisation that they want to improve, but it doesn't matter how much as long as we're heading in the right direction, and really there's no hurry?
Devonshire, thanks for getting us back on topic!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
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On what basis do you think that? Do you have experience of transforming an organisation from a culture of complacency and low performance into one of aspiration and excellence? Do you think the staff who presided over the last 12 years should be protected from feeling pressure to raise their game substantially? Do you think that the leadership should be telling the organisation that they want to improve, but it doesn't matter how much as long as we're heading in the right direction, and really there's no hurry?
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On the basis that if we don't get close to achieving it he's going to look a prize numpty.
Behind the scenes I think these kind of soft targets are fine. Telling the fans and media was just daft though.
If we don't get close.....what then? Does he apologise? Step down?
All that needed to be said was we are going to rebuild the club and team. Don't put dates on it. Especially with so many good teams in the PL right now.
If I was a betting man.... I don't think we win another league title this decade. Just being a realist.
I don’t care what we do as long as I don’t ever have to watch Hojlund in a United shirt ever again.
Do you remember Liverpool FC putting a date on a title? Or Arsenal?
Football doesn't work that way. Just a PR own goal that will come back to bite him.
Tbf Berrada said the same a year ago and we then went on to have one of our worst seasons ever which makes what he said that much worse. When he first said it did he think we would then sack our manager a few months later and look into replacing virtually the entire squad including players bought only a year or 2 prior? None of us are even sure our current manager will be here next year.
Has Ratcliffe brought in the right people to make positive change at the club, I don’t know. But I do know that so far none of these changes have brought any significant improvements on the pitch and until they do I will continue to be skeptical of things improving anytime soon. I’m just trying to be realistic even if that comes across as negative, we really are an absolute mess and there’s no sugar coating it.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 24 seconds ago
Tbf Berrada said the same a year ago and we then went on to have one of our worst seasons ever which makes what he said that much worse. When he first said it did he think we would then sack our manager a few months later and look into replacing virtually the entire squad including players bought only a year or 2 prior? None of us are even sure our current manager will be here next year.
Has Ratcliffe brought in the right people to make positive change at the club, I don’t know. But I do know that so far none of these changes have brought any significant improvements on the pitch and until they do I will continue to be skeptical of things improving anytime soon. I’m just trying to be realistic even if that comes across as negative, we really are an absolute mess and there’s no sugar coating it.
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Liverpool, City and Arsenal are going to be incredibly difficult to pass this decade. Some would say impossible really to pass all 3 and I'd agree. They are all just starting from a much stronger position than we are.
I get what he's trying to do. Trying to excite the fan base however it's absolute pie in the sky right now to see us winning a league title within 3 years.
I reckon our next one will be in the 2030's at the earliest most likely. I also don't think Glazers or Ineos will be our owners when we do next win it either.
So you don't like the idea because it's very ambitious and they could look silly if they fail, and because it's not something clubs typically do. Thank you for explaining.
Personally, I think it's not at all a bad thing when a club's standards have fallen so low to attempt a drastic shock to raise them as quickly as possible. That's not to say it's a couple of short, easy steps to getting back to where we want to be, but that setting very high expectations of everyone is a prerequisite for improving. Setting a clear and ambitious goal and then working back from that to define what that means in terms changes (to scouting and recruitment, the kinds of results we need from our handling of contracts and trading, how physical preparation and the medical department need to improve, getting ahead of the curve tactically, etc.) seems to me a good way to transform an organisation.
Other clubs haven't done it? Who cares! Other clubs haven't been in such desperate need of a reset. Does Berrada look silly when we don't win the title? Who cares! He probably won't if, in failing with the moon-shot, we're well on the way to being a serious football club and we're on a strong financial footing. And honestly there's so much noise in the football discourse these days that it probably makes no difference to the general hysteria in 2028. In the meantime, going big with the aspiration in 2024 does put a bit of pressure on himself and everyone under him to perform, which has to be a good thing.
With two goal scoring wide players/inside forwards (Cunha, Mbeumo + Amad & Bruno), there's possibly more of an argument for sticking with Zirkzee as a link player that won't necessarily get a hatful of goals himself, but who can knit things together for the others to provide the goals.
He did look increasingly up to speed with the PL by the time he did his hamstring (whereas earlier in the season you could see the technique & invention but the timing was well off).
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I'm warming to this idea more and more, especially if Mbuemo signs because I'm not that convinced by many of the strikers we're being linked with although in Osimhen's case, I don't think we can afford/would be willing to sign him permanently because of the cost involved and he'd be my first choice, has been for a few years.
Unless as mentioned above we could work out some sort of loan with an option/obligation.
Mbuemo if he signs can act as a target man coming in from the flank and also provide a running threat in behind. He's a player we need to get the ball to in the box as much as possible, not have him receiving the ball deep and wide with multiple opposition players in front of him.
We still have pretty glaring weaknesses at wing-back and when playing out from the back and through midfield, although some changes tactically could help ease our struggles in that regard. I'd be willing to sacrifice a permanent move for a striker if it meant addressing these issues.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 seconds ago
So you don't like the idea because it's very ambitious and they could look silly if they fail, and because it's not something clubs typically do. Thank you for explaining.
Personally, I think it's not at all a bad thing when a club's standards have fallen so low to attempt a drastic shock to raise them as quickly as possible. That's not to say it's a couple of short, easy steps to getting back to where we want to be, but that setting very high expectations of everyone is a prerequisite for improving. Setting a clear and ambitious goal and then working back from that to define what that means in terms changes (to scouting and recruitment, the kinds of results we need from our handling of contracts and trading, how physical preparation and the medical department need to improve, getting ahead of the curve tactically, etc.) seems to me a good way to transform an organisation.
Other clubs haven't done it? Who cares! Other clubs haven't been in such desperate need of a reset. Does Berrada look silly when we don't win the title? Who cares! He probably won't if, in failing with the moon-shot, we're well on the way to being a serious football club and we're on a strong financial footing. And honestly there's so much noise in the football discourse these days that it probably makes no difference to the general hysteria in 2028. In the meantime, going big with the aspiration in 2024 does put a bit of pressure on himself and everyone under him to perform, which has to be a good thing.
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I don't like it because it's simply not going to happen and again just PR / noise that means nothing.
Arsenal, Liverpool and City are all looking incredibly strong right now and have the added bonus of regular CL money coming in. We can't even be sure we will qualify for the competition in the next 2/3 years.
How on earth can we close that gap so quickly? Come on use your head. It isn't going to happen is it?
If you were told now that we wouldn't finish top 4/5 for the next two seasons, you could absolutely 100% believe it. It's very plausible.
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Striker on loan?
Page 1 of 5
posted on 17/6/25
I think Ramos makes a lot of sense on loan. Gives us a striker that I think suits Amorims needs and we don’t need to commit which allows us to strengthen other areas. I think I read that Bruno has wanted him at the club.
I guess Osimhen is a bit like Sancho and Rashford in that his owners don’t want him but his wages + fee are a big stumbling block.
posted on 17/6/25
With the aim to win the PL by 2028 it really does depend what the plan is in terms of achieving that I think.
Gyokeres and Osimhen seem to be here and now forwards whereas Ekitike is, from what I've read of him, someone seemingly for now but more for the future.
Getting into the CL, and the money it brings, should accelerate any hopes of PL success in three years. Therefore, may we be tempted to go the here and now route with a forward or will be spend more evenly across the squad (although it's the first XI that needs improving rather than buying squad players IMO).
It's a big Summer I feel and I'm quite excited to see how the team will look come September.
posted on 17/6/25
To add. I have also all but given up on Hojlund but, if he does want to stay and fight for his place (credit to him for that), he really does need to be taken out of the firing line. Perhaps I'm being a bit unfair but I do think there's a touch of arrogance about him. Now that isn't a bad thing but I reckon he could do with being a bit more humble. He isn't half as bad as he showed last year IMO. Perhaps a more cohesive front three with Cunho and, hopefully, Mbeumo will help him?
posted on 17/6/25
If we can sell Hojlund then we should but if not then I do think a loan could be a very beneficial for him to help gain confident and get back to developing. If he can do that then we’re in a far stronger position to sell him next summer (or even consider keeping him).
I don’t think we should be thinking about winning the league by 2028, let’s concentrate on not being sh-t first.
posted on 17/6/25
I don't think Rasmus Højlund is the problem for you lot, nor do I think Zirkzee is the problem, I think their problem is the players around them, imagine they had MacAlister or Sabozolai, or Salah, or Gakpo, or Diaz playing around them, they would both be constantly in double figures for goals.
posted on 17/6/25
Diafol, the Hojlund of 23/24 looked as though he had tools that could develop into a very good player. If all we'd seen on him was the 24/25 version, I'd have no faith. Maybe there's a chance he can regain his confidence and refine his game if he's not first choice. From his point of view, I'd have thought he'd have a better chance of developing his career if he was playing regular football in a more forgiving environment.
Anyway, I think the club probably needs to be pragmatic this summer. Selling one of Zirkzee or Hojlund for ~£40m would give us some wiggle room to bring in players that are better suited or more ready to play for United. I'd like to see both of them grow into important players at our club, but I'd sell either at the right price, so it's really a case of waiting to see if anyone takes a nibble.
posted on 17/6/25
I don’t think we should be thinking about winning the league by 2028, let’s concentrate on not being sh-t first.
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It's useful to have medium term goals. If we want to win the league by 2028, that presupposes taking steps to rapidly improve each season between now and then. If we're just asking ourselves 'what moves can improve us as much as possible next season?', the answer would probably be to buy players who are currently at their peak, and are in decline and impossible to sell in a couple of years.
Not thinking about the years ahead is basically the Woodward-Murtough show.
posted on 17/6/25
True but Berrada also said we could win it by 2028 a year ago when we had a completely different manager playing a completely different way so I probably won't take much from what he says.
Aiming to not be sh-t might sound easy and short term but recent history has shown that isn't the case.
posted on 17/6/25
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 16 seconds ago
True but Berrada also said we could win it by 2028 a year ago when we had a completely different manager playing a completely different way so I probably won't take much from what he says.
Aiming to not be sh-t might sound easy and short term but recent history has shown that isn't the case.
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I didn't say it sounded easy. You've alluded yourself to the fact that short-term solutions haven't worked out well in the past. Are you actually arguing that we're better off having no longer term goals and strategies? Or just expressing cynicism about the club being aspirational?
posted on 17/6/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Diafol, the Hojlund of 23/24 looked as though he had tools that could develop into a very good player. If all we'd seen on him was the 24/25 version, I'd have no faith. Maybe there's a chance he can regain his confidence and refine his game if he's not first choice. From his point of view, I'd have thought he'd have a better chance of developing his career if he was playing regular football in a more forgiving environment.
Anyway, I think the club probably needs to be pragmatic this summer. Selling one of Zirkzee or Hojlund for ~£40m would give us some wiggle room to bring in players that are better suited or more ready to play for United. I'd like to see both of them grow into important players at our club, but I'd sell either at the right price, so it's really a case of waiting to see if anyone takes a nibble.
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With two goal scoring wide players/inside forwards (Cunha, Mbeumo + Amad & Bruno), there's possibly more of an argument for sticking with Zirkzee as a link player that won't necessarily get a hatful of goals himself, but who can knit things together for the others to provide the goals.
He did look increasingly up to speed with the PL by the time he did his hamstring (whereas earlier in the season you could see the technique & invention but the timing was well off).
posted on 17/6/25
I have no issue with having long term goals and hoping that one day soon we'll be fighting for a title but I'm also aware that the idea we could win the title in 3 seasons is pretty ridiculous considering we just had the our worst league season in over 50 years. I'm also very cynical about the club and what they can achieve while the Glazers are in charge as well as Ratcliffe, neither of which care about the club or their fans.
I admire your positivity but there really isn't much to suggest we will be winning the PL any time soon. Did you watch us last season, we were an embarrassment, aiming to not be that sh-t really isn't being that cynical.
posted on 17/6/25
Berbaking, I think the logic of Zirkzee as a false nine, with Rashford and Antony/Amad either side of him, made relatively good sense. Rashford's pace in behind, in particular, would offset Zirkzee's sluggishness, and in another timeline ZZ's ability to knit play together could have unlocked a lot of chances for him. I'm less confident about ZZ playing that role in Amorim's system - at least, it would mean substantially changing the way he set up attacks at Sporting. And buying Cunha (who doesn't have blistering pace) seems to me more like using the 10 as a ball carrying facilitator, rather than the one who runs in behind, fed by a centre forward who drops deep. But I'm obviously no expert.
posted on 17/6/25
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
I have no issue with having long term goals and hoping that one day soon we'll be fighting for a title but I'm also aware that the idea we could win the title in 3 seasons is pretty ridiculous considering we just had the our worst league season in over 50 years. I'm also very cynical about the club and what they can achieve while the Glazers are in charge as well as Ratcliffe, neither of which care about the club or their fans.
I admire your positivity but there really isn't much to suggest we will be winning the PL any time soon. Did you watch us last season, we were an embarrassment, aiming to not be that sh-t really isn't being that cynical.
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I'm not being positive. I'm just trying to get my head around what constructive steps the front room leadership should be putting in place to improve the club as quickly as possible. Winning the title by 2028 clearly looks extremely ambitious and pretty unlikely. Does that mean it's misguided as a goal? Not necessarily, if the goal is a means to focus decision making at every level. It seems to me that winning a title depends most seasons on a fair bit of luck breaking in the eventual winner's favour. But if our club is seriously looking at a title challenge by 2028, then it needs to position itself to be realistically expecting to finish in the CL places that year. I think that is something United, given our resources, can achieve if we make a lot of good decisions and not too many bad ones. Crucially, those good decisions need to be coherent with an overall strategy that governs the game model, profile of players, when they are likely to collectively peak, etc. Unless they are madmen, I very much doubt that the sporting leadership see champions by 2028 as the absolute goal. It's the extreme aspirational end of a range of outcomes if everyone does their job well, and it's when this cycle of team building ought to reach maturity (Bruno, Cunha, and other senior players not yet over the hill, and youngsters coming into their prime years).
Again, I'm not skipping in the sunshine predicting that the glory days are around the corner. I'm just more interested in exploring what the club is doing than spending my life moaning about how sad it makes me feel supporting Manchester United.
It's not that Berrada should get a medal for framing the club's planning around a medium-term goal. This is what any professionally run club should be doing, and it's an indictment of the Glazer-Woodward regime that there's lots of evidence that they never bothered, and always thought they were one or two star signings away from being back in the big time. Years and years of abject complacency and unwillingness to think about longer-term strategy have taken us to this low point, which is I guess why I reacted snippily towards your dismissal of something that looks as though it might finally be a change in direction.
posted on 17/6/25
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
Our aim should be to rebuild the club the right way and the title challenge comes when we are ready.
I'd say an outside challenge before falling away come the end in 2028 is pushing it never mind actually winning the damn thing.
Not convinced this new management team are actually any better than what we had before really.
posted on 17/6/25
I think United best route is to get a decent striker in through a loan and obligation approach.
Where United are perhaps not able to rid themselves this summer of the deadwood, they know for sure that they only have to hold on to Sancho & Casemiro for another year and then their amortised cost and wages are off the books....that's about a £50m saving, and they may have more wriggle room in 12 months to pay for deals, if they can get those loans in now. You may also be a step closer to offloading Antony & Rashford permanently by that point too.
Whether you loan or buy probably is closely related to who you get out of the door. But i wouldnt look for a stop gap loan (unless the plan is for rasmus to become a decent striker in 12 months) because really you need to be integrating a new striker now and for the future, not now and then again next season.
I would see Osimhen, on loan, reasonable loan fee and an obligation to buy as probably the ideal option for Utd.
Spurs do this all the time. We only made Kulusevski permanent 2 seasons ago but have held him for 3.5. Porro, Danso, Romero all came in as proper targets which we paid for later. Tel's the same and he's an example of where we even managed to negotiate a lower fee than was agreed at the time of the loan. £5-8m loan fee, £30m further to buy. United could learn a lot from Spurs...we've been shopping and doing clever deals for years, in the way United now have to. Our problem is that's all we do and we could do with a bit more of United's willingness to buy 'stars'
posted on 17/6/25
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
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On what basis do you think that? Do you have experience of transforming an organisation from a culture of complacency and low performance into one of aspiration and excellence? Do you think the staff who presided over the last 12 years should be protected from feeling pressure to raise their game substantially? Do you think that the leadership should be telling the organisation that they want to improve, but it doesn't matter how much as long as we're heading in the right direction, and really there's no hurry?
posted on 17/6/25
Devonshire, thanks for getting us back on topic!
posted on 17/6/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Telling the world we are aiming to win the title by 2028 was just complete and utter stupidity. Just creates needless pressure.
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On what basis do you think that? Do you have experience of transforming an organisation from a culture of complacency and low performance into one of aspiration and excellence? Do you think the staff who presided over the last 12 years should be protected from feeling pressure to raise their game substantially? Do you think that the leadership should be telling the organisation that they want to improve, but it doesn't matter how much as long as we're heading in the right direction, and really there's no hurry?
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On the basis that if we don't get close to achieving it he's going to look a prize numpty.
Behind the scenes I think these kind of soft targets are fine. Telling the fans and media was just daft though.
If we don't get close.....what then? Does he apologise? Step down?
All that needed to be said was we are going to rebuild the club and team. Don't put dates on it. Especially with so many good teams in the PL right now.
If I was a betting man.... I don't think we win another league title this decade. Just being a realist.
posted on 17/6/25
I don’t care what we do as long as I don’t ever have to watch Hojlund in a United shirt ever again.
posted on 17/6/25
Do you remember Liverpool FC putting a date on a title? Or Arsenal?
Football doesn't work that way. Just a PR own goal that will come back to bite him.
posted on 17/6/25
Tbf Berrada said the same a year ago and we then went on to have one of our worst seasons ever which makes what he said that much worse. When he first said it did he think we would then sack our manager a few months later and look into replacing virtually the entire squad including players bought only a year or 2 prior? None of us are even sure our current manager will be here next year.
Has Ratcliffe brought in the right people to make positive change at the club, I don’t know. But I do know that so far none of these changes have brought any significant improvements on the pitch and until they do I will continue to be skeptical of things improving anytime soon. I’m just trying to be realistic even if that comes across as negative, we really are an absolute mess and there’s no sugar coating it.
posted on 17/6/25
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 24 seconds ago
Tbf Berrada said the same a year ago and we then went on to have one of our worst seasons ever which makes what he said that much worse. When he first said it did he think we would then sack our manager a few months later and look into replacing virtually the entire squad including players bought only a year or 2 prior? None of us are even sure our current manager will be here next year.
Has Ratcliffe brought in the right people to make positive change at the club, I don’t know. But I do know that so far none of these changes have brought any significant improvements on the pitch and until they do I will continue to be skeptical of things improving anytime soon. I’m just trying to be realistic even if that comes across as negative, we really are an absolute mess and there’s no sugar coating it.
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Liverpool, City and Arsenal are going to be incredibly difficult to pass this decade. Some would say impossible really to pass all 3 and I'd agree. They are all just starting from a much stronger position than we are.
I get what he's trying to do. Trying to excite the fan base however it's absolute pie in the sky right now to see us winning a league title within 3 years.
I reckon our next one will be in the 2030's at the earliest most likely. I also don't think Glazers or Ineos will be our owners when we do next win it either.
posted on 17/6/25
So you don't like the idea because it's very ambitious and they could look silly if they fail, and because it's not something clubs typically do. Thank you for explaining.
Personally, I think it's not at all a bad thing when a club's standards have fallen so low to attempt a drastic shock to raise them as quickly as possible. That's not to say it's a couple of short, easy steps to getting back to where we want to be, but that setting very high expectations of everyone is a prerequisite for improving. Setting a clear and ambitious goal and then working back from that to define what that means in terms changes (to scouting and recruitment, the kinds of results we need from our handling of contracts and trading, how physical preparation and the medical department need to improve, getting ahead of the curve tactically, etc.) seems to me a good way to transform an organisation.
Other clubs haven't done it? Who cares! Other clubs haven't been in such desperate need of a reset. Does Berrada look silly when we don't win the title? Who cares! He probably won't if, in failing with the moon-shot, we're well on the way to being a serious football club and we're on a strong financial footing. And honestly there's so much noise in the football discourse these days that it probably makes no difference to the general hysteria in 2028. In the meantime, going big with the aspiration in 2024 does put a bit of pressure on himself and everyone under him to perform, which has to be a good thing.
posted on 17/6/25
With two goal scoring wide players/inside forwards (Cunha, Mbeumo + Amad & Bruno), there's possibly more of an argument for sticking with Zirkzee as a link player that won't necessarily get a hatful of goals himself, but who can knit things together for the others to provide the goals.
He did look increasingly up to speed with the PL by the time he did his hamstring (whereas earlier in the season you could see the technique & invention but the timing was well off).
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I'm warming to this idea more and more, especially if Mbuemo signs because I'm not that convinced by many of the strikers we're being linked with although in Osimhen's case, I don't think we can afford/would be willing to sign him permanently because of the cost involved and he'd be my first choice, has been for a few years.
Unless as mentioned above we could work out some sort of loan with an option/obligation.
Mbuemo if he signs can act as a target man coming in from the flank and also provide a running threat in behind. He's a player we need to get the ball to in the box as much as possible, not have him receiving the ball deep and wide with multiple opposition players in front of him.
We still have pretty glaring weaknesses at wing-back and when playing out from the back and through midfield, although some changes tactically could help ease our struggles in that regard. I'd be willing to sacrifice a permanent move for a striker if it meant addressing these issues.
posted on 17/6/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 seconds ago
So you don't like the idea because it's very ambitious and they could look silly if they fail, and because it's not something clubs typically do. Thank you for explaining.
Personally, I think it's not at all a bad thing when a club's standards have fallen so low to attempt a drastic shock to raise them as quickly as possible. That's not to say it's a couple of short, easy steps to getting back to where we want to be, but that setting very high expectations of everyone is a prerequisite for improving. Setting a clear and ambitious goal and then working back from that to define what that means in terms changes (to scouting and recruitment, the kinds of results we need from our handling of contracts and trading, how physical preparation and the medical department need to improve, getting ahead of the curve tactically, etc.) seems to me a good way to transform an organisation.
Other clubs haven't done it? Who cares! Other clubs haven't been in such desperate need of a reset. Does Berrada look silly when we don't win the title? Who cares! He probably won't if, in failing with the moon-shot, we're well on the way to being a serious football club and we're on a strong financial footing. And honestly there's so much noise in the football discourse these days that it probably makes no difference to the general hysteria in 2028. In the meantime, going big with the aspiration in 2024 does put a bit of pressure on himself and everyone under him to perform, which has to be a good thing.
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I don't like it because it's simply not going to happen and again just PR / noise that means nothing.
Arsenal, Liverpool and City are all looking incredibly strong right now and have the added bonus of regular CL money coming in. We can't even be sure we will qualify for the competition in the next 2/3 years.
How on earth can we close that gap so quickly? Come on use your head. It isn't going to happen is it?
If you were told now that we wouldn't finish top 4/5 for the next two seasons, you could absolutely 100% believe it. It's very plausible.
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