Hargreaves released...

I know, I'm not saying he wasn't an idiot for that semi and his subsequent comments. It was foolish and reckless. But that doesn't outweigh everything else he has done to get us to where we are today. He has been an incredible captain for us over the years and is a major reason we have enjoyed such success. You could see how much it meant to him and everyone else. I'm sure no-one in the team has a problem with it, so why should anyone else? One moment of madness (plenty of players do absolutely ridiculous things and then realise the mistake) does not mean he should be stripped of any right to celebrate.

As for Rooney...so long as he's as influential to England winning in the tournament as a whole as Terry is to Chelsea's success, I really wouldn't have a problem with him celebrating. An apology is fine. If we hadn't have won against Barca, of course we would be railing against Terry a bit more. But we did, so what's the big deal? He COULD have cost us the game, but didn't. Drogba MAY have cost us the Moscow final, but who will ever know what might have happened had he stayed on the pitch? Ifs and buts get us nowhere.

Also, I'd like to point out - how is it only 'unfortunate' that Scholes and Keane missed out on the final for receiving another yellow card (which they knew would rule them out)? Fair enough it wasn't stupidity like Terry's, but it's not like their absence was not their own fault.

I'm sure both sets of fans are somewhat biased when it comes to their own players/team also, which is why we'll never agree. Although it is interesting to see other Utd fans reacting far more placidly to it. Horses for courses, wot?

BlueBlood (U1268)
posted 1 minute ago
Also, I'd like to point out - how is it only 'unfortunate' that Scholes and Keane missed out on the final for receiving another yellow card (which they knew would rule them out)? Fair enough it wasn't stupidity like Terry's, but it's not like their absence was not their own fault.


Purely because of that. Their yellows late tackles at the worse, I remember Keane's being very soft. Terry kicked somebody, the two really aren't comparable.

Also, I have never seen a midfield performance quite like Keane's in Italy, he really did drag the game by the scruff and got us into the CL final. Juve were almost as formidable then as Barca are now, with the likes of Zizou, Inzaghi and co.

He deserved that trophy as much, if not more than most of the players on the pitch yet still felt he let the team down to the extent he didn't seem to want part of it.

Where as Terry, who let his team mates down, feels a 5 second apology after the game means he is sorry and all is okay. If you can't see the difference you are being ignorant to the facts because of your support.

No, I'm not being ignorant of anything. I just refuse to see how it's such a 'disgrace' and why one dumb moment should outweigh all the good he has done us, particularly in previous performances in the CL this season.

A defender can hardly dictate a game or grab it by the scruff and drag a team through to a result. As a captain he inspires the team around him and pops up with vital goals, but he cannot have the same kind of influence as a midfielder such as Keane, so that comment is really rather redundant. A comparison with Drogba would have been better.

You are more lenient on your players (e.g. Rooney and Giggs and their indiscretions), we defend ours against the barrage of abuse. Some is deserved, of course, and I will not excuse condemnable actions. But I will also not sit back and accept that everything our players do is so much worse than others' actions. Terry will never be seen in a favourable light because of what he has done (or believed to have done) previously. Even his condolences to the Belgian families who lost their kids in that awful coach accident were seen as self-promoting and insincere. Never mind the stuff our players do for charity, or the fact that they (Terry included) visit ill kids in hospital, which they will probably remember for the rest of their lives.

It's always the negatives that are focused on with those in the spotlight all the time. People are quicker to excuse their own players because others certainly will not. It does not mean, however, that I am ignorant of their personalities or transgressions. I just don't think something as silly as wearing his kit (which all the other absentees also did) when celebrating is worthy of such abuse.

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

I apologise, I meant he hasn't been found guilty of anything as of yet. Typed the wrong word.

Also, there are plenty saying that he should not have received a medal simply because of the semi. I warrant they'd also say that just because of their views on him.

You admit yourself that he is not being given any leeway in the final because of people's views on him, so you're also admitting that others' biased opinions are causing them to blow this whole thing out of proportion? Remember the original point was about him dressing in his kit (which all the absentees did as directed by the club) and lifting the cup with Lampard (which would have happened anyway had Terry played in the final or not).

I apologise for not addressing all of your points, but I'm also trying to multi-task by planning my lessons to teach tomorrow and half-listening to the TV before crashing into bed! If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll spend more time picking them apart and responding properly.

Yes I def agree his behaviour is being focussed on because his actions fit with a pattern of behaviour consistent with peoples negative opinion of his character. After all, it's only natural to come down more heavily on someone consistently acting a certain way rather than someone that has either acted out of character or has for the first time done something annoying.

However this doesnt mean it has been blown totally out of proportion by most people. I agree demanding he does not receive a medal at all would be OTT, but most are simply saying in their view given the circumstances he showed no humility.

This has been exacerbated further by others in a similar positon previously showing much more humility, despite having less reason for doing so.

You disagree and think he acted perfectly acceptably, which is fine.

It's really as simple as that.

comment by BlueBlood (U1268)
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I didn't mean that Terry didn't deserve a medal at all, just that he should have accepted it in a more dignified way rather than leaping into the limelight like that. I felt it was disrespectful to those who actually played in the semi and the final. It should have been their moment first and foremost but Terry had to be front and centre as usual.

PS I never defend Giggs or Rooney and I have lambasted both in the past. Roo in particular I have slated on many occasions. I even wanted him booted out the club a couple of seasons ago for what he said about United and the way he disrespected the manager. Truth be known I think Wayne is a bit of a door handle, great player or not. And Giggs deserved what he got too. I'll always admire and respect him as a footballer but his reputation went out the window along with his knighthood (which I previously felt that Giggs deserved until all the revelations).

Saying that we all defend the these players is just deflecting the argument because it simply ain't true (though I accept that it may be true of some fans - we have loads of them and they aren't all charming or intelligent that's for sure!)

Precisely so - I admire our players as footballers first and foremost. I don't condone many of their (some so-called) actions at all, even on the pitch. But I will not allow off-field antics that have nothing to do with football to change my opinion on the player on the field. Not unless they do something truly horrendous, such as the King example earlier, who I don't believe should be playing football any more after being jailed.