A country rife with racism & homophobia

Just for the record - I have never said calling someone fat was as bad as monkey gestures.

I have said that racism should not be a special case as there are many types of prejudice and it is prejudice that is wrong.

I'm not sure the term clown is accurate given your stance on black on white racism Winston.

MrMortimer (U8234)

You really will argue anything.

So you're now going to tell me that there's no difference whatsoever in racism from white to black and black to white in the UK?

Pathetic.

I've explained the relevance of national borders - you're just not capable of understanding it.

Like the way you're now trying to change this to prejudice. We were not discussing prejudice, we were discussing abuse.

You suggested that racial abuse is not worse than other forms of abuse.

So, as I say, that leaves you in a position where calling someone fat is as bad as calling a black person a monkey.

If you think you can justify that comment, then we may as well leave it here. You'll be derided by most, and rightly so - because it's an utterly stupid thing to say.

"I think someone guilty of monkey chants should be charged in the same way that anyone guilty of abuse should be charged."

"I have never said calling someone fat was as bad as monkey gestures."

Welcome to the mystical world of Mr Mortimer, where racists are entitled to voice their opinion, and racial abuse is treated as seriously as insults about your weight.

Idiot.

And just one more...

"I have suggested we punish all abuse equally"

"I have never said calling someone fat was as bad as monkey gestures."

No, I will not argue anything… I do admit to arguing passionately against ignorance though which is why your posts always rouse a response.

OK, let’s take it back to basics.
If a white person in the UK was refused a job because he was white – would that be less bad than a black person in the UK being refused a job because he was black? No, because racial prejudice is wrong regardless of which particular race is on the wrong end of it. Can we agree on that?
Prejudice is prejudice.
If someone is refused a job because of the colour of their skin, that is wrong. It is prejudice.
If someone is refused a job because of the colour of their hair, that is wrong. It is prejudice.
If someone is refused a job because of their religion, that is wrong. It is prejudice.
If someone is refused a job because of their obesity, that is wrong. It is prejudice.
If someone is refused a job because of their sexuality, that is wrong. It is prejudice.

Abuse is abuse.
If someone shouts abuse at someone’s obesity it is… abuse.
If someone shouts abuse at someone’s religion it is… abuse.
If someone shouts abuse at someone’s sexuality it is… abuse.
If someone shouts abuse at someone’s race it is… abuse.

Do you see the distinction?

Now of course each individual abuse may cause great offence, or it may not. You have already accepted that racial abuse can be like other forms of abuse and not linked to any prejudice. Would you accept that some other forms of abuse (for example sexuality) can be linked to prejudice? In which case – racism does not deserve to be in a special category of its own.

Calling a black person a monkey can be more offensive than calling someone fat, I have no problem accepting that. My point would be that it would be worse precisely because it was more offensive, and not because of an apriori judgment that race is automatically worse than body size.
I’m sure we could both think of a stream of abuse against someone overweight that would cause more offence than calling someone a white so and so. I don’t think because the term white was used it should automatically be seen as worse than abuse about body size.

MrMortimer (U8234)

There's only one ignoramus here, and it's not me.

Give me an example of abuse to a fat person that you think would be considered equally as bad, or worse, than making monkey gestures to a black man.

I'd love to hear it.

Racism against black people in the UK has been institutional, cultural and very powerful. It's something that the country is still fighting to rid itself of, and it's not long ago that it was accepted practice.

Therefore, if you racially abuse a black person, regardless of intent, it is inextricably linked to racism, and punished accordingly.

To try and compare that to abuse of a fat person is nonsensical.

You're trying to dismiss the serious historical context of race related abuse, which is a truly stupid thing to do.

Try discussing this with friends etc. and see how much agreement you'll get. I reckon you'll get a lot of funny looks and disappointed friends.

Winston -
Yes I think someone guilty of abuse should be charged with abuse... I don't think there should be a special distinction for racial abuse. That is the point about people being charged in the same way - the criteria used should be the same.

You have argued racism against white people isn't as bad as racism against black people! And prejudice against someone because of a race is unlike prejudice because of other reasons... but you can't say why.

You accept that not all racial abuse is linked to prejudice, but it should be punished because it is linked to prejudice... again not against whites... and again you don't answer whether there are other forms of prejudice which exist and which people are abused for.

You have refused to answer questions put to you, and have continually used insults to try and hide the holes in your arguments.

It's a shame.

I don't understand why you feel the need to argue in favour of abuse at football matches. Surely we can all agree abuse has no place there?

"You accept that not all racial abuse is linked to prejudice, but it should be punished because it is linked to prejudice... again not against whites... and again you don't answer whether there are other forms of prejudice which exist and which people are abused for."


I can only decipher from this that you lack the ability to read and digest the information being given to you.

I suggest you re-read the thread in a few weeks, make notes, and see if you can work out why this comment is completely incorrect.

Good luck with that.


"I don't understand why you feel the need to argue in favour of abuse at football matches."

Moronic.

I can imagine a swear-laden few sentences referencing obesity to be more offensive to an individual than a single sentence containing less swear words but referencing race. I know people who are utterly unoffended by race, just as I know people who are extremely sensitive about their weight.

Firstly - You have already accepted that not all racial abuse is linked to prejudice.
Secondly – is racial abuse of white people not linked to other forms of racism?
Thirdly – there is still prejudice on-going in this country, prejudice that affects peoples’ lives today.

I’m not dismissing the historical context of race related abuse. I understand the issues, but I see it as part of a bigger picture in the fight against ignorance and prejudice of all forms.
I’ve already discussed the issue with friends, in fact many of them refused to believe you genuinely thought black on white racism was less bad – they thought you were on the wind up!

MrMortimer (U8234)

This is now going around in circles.

I've explained my points, and you have shown that you don't have the intelligence to understand them e.g. the ridiculous bit about arguing in favour of abuse at football matches.

You're either on the wind up or not very bright, but I'm not going to waste anymore time with you.

If you feel you need clarity to any of these points, just read back - my posts cover them.

And as a summary to this debate, upon which to finish, we can conclude that you think swearing at a fat person is as bad as making monkey gestures towards a black person.

How sad that people like you actually exist.