I've long been under the impression that, with the quality of players at Jurgen's disposal, their skill, speed, ball control etc., the need for any heavy tackling either to win or keep the ball was not central to our play.
However, in recent games, and especially the City game, the boys were not holding back. None more so than Andy Robertson, who left his calling card on Raheem on a few occasions and, to his credit, won the ball in the process. His burst of speed, in the 74th minute, no less, tackling every City player en route and ending up in their penalty box, fouling Otamendi in the process is more of what I would like to see in the form of commitment.
I remember a game away to Watford last season(? or the season before?) when the game became very one-sided and physical against us, and the team wasn't matching it. And we lost. Against City, GIni, Alex, Sadio and Mo, all as well as Can we're getting well and truly stuck in.
Or have I got that wrong?
Tackles
posted on 18/1/18
Wessie, you could divide Sunday's game into two unequal parts: the first 80 mins and the last 10-15. By that latter period, the Reds had run themselves into the deck. The tank was empty. How they hung on - beyond dear life - defies belief. City had us beat by then and we're picking us off. Thank God three of them were offside for that last free kick. From where I was sitting I'd thought he'd scored.
Seeming ability to kill the game, keep possession? Non-existent for the Reds.
posted on 18/1/18
comment by Cornelius Oofterom (U15867)
posted 43 minutes ago
Why have you changed your sign-off to 'Or have I got that wrong?', but not changed your username. Doesn't make sense now.
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Quite simple, Cornelius, I've grown up. Just a bit.
posted on 18/1/18
Seeming ability to kill the game, keep possession? Non-existent for the Reds.
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I think we've got to learn it, Jimmy.
Cost us points at Watford, Arsenal, Sevilla, etc.
I'm not suggesting we change our style, I don't think we could: but we could avoid taking people on, or trying speculative flicks, for 10-15 minutes at the end of the game, when we've got time and space, surely?
Otherwise the confidence seeps out, because we can be 3 goals up with 15 minutes to go, and not sure of winning it.
Good to watch, but I can't help thinking it's resolvable, so about time we resolved it. We're just inviting pressure.
posted on 18/1/18
comment by JimmyTheRed (U1682)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Cornelius Oofterom (U15867)
posted 43 minutes ago
Why have you changed your sign-off to 'Or have I got that wrong?', but not changed your username. Doesn't make sense now.
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Quite simple, Cornelius, I've grown up. Just a bit.
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There was nothing childish about it in the first place though, Jimmy.
As for tackles, I would like to see more of this from us and other teams in general in football games. Sadly, tackling seems to be a dying component in modern day football since it’s slowly becoming a non contact sport with fouls being given just for touching another player. Players chucking themselves to the turf after a slight touch hasn’t helped matters either. It is good and necessary for us to have that tough and gritty edge to our game though, it’s not just all about the press.
I too would like to see us have a bit more composure towards the end of close games. On Sunday, I just didn’t understand why we didn’t try to keep the ball in safer areas of the pitch during the final 7 or so minutes instead of giving it away as easily as we did. If we’re ever going to win another league title, this will need to happen. Titles aren’t won by giving away late costly goals as we are well aware.
posted on 18/1/18
comment by 1 Father - 1 Love - 2 Reds (Any Brazilians left?) (U13312)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by JimmyTheRed (U1682)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Cornelius Oofterom (U15867)
posted 43 minutes ago
Why have you changed your sign-off to 'Or have I got that wrong?', but not changed your username. Doesn't make sense now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite simple, Cornelius, I've grown up. Just a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There was nothing childish about it in the first place though, Jimmy.
As for tackles, I would like to see more of this from us and other teams in general in football games. Sadly, tackling seems to be a dying component in modern day football since it’s slowly becoming a non contact sport with fouls being given just for touching another player. Players chucking themselves to the turf after a slight touch hasn’t helped matters either. It is good and necessary for us to have that tough and gritty edge to our game though, it’s not just all about the press.
I too would like to see us have a bit more composure towards the end of close games. On Sunday, I just didn’t understand why we didn’t try to keep the ball in safer areas of the pitch during the final 7 or so minutes instead of giving it away as easily as we did. If we’re ever going to win another league title, this will need to happen. Titles aren’t won by giving away late costly goals as we are well aware.
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Completely agree. We had the ball in citys half in the last 10 mins but instead of trying to hold the ball up we kept trying to attack at 4-1. Crazy.
posted on 18/1/18
Sadly, tackling seems to be a dying component in modern day football since it’s slowly becoming a non contact sport
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Xabi Alonso once said that when you are being coached in Spain, you are taught that tackling is a last resort, and that you have failed to manage your opponent if you have to resort to it.
Which I found interesting, because I've always thought, when playing as well as watching, that there is such a thing as too much tackling.
I've seen Hansen, too, saying that if you couldn't be sure of winning the ball, you're better off, sometimes, letting the forward have it. (and that if you manage him properly, he won't do much with it anyway).
Lovren, for me, is a better player than his current reputation would suggest, but I think one of his failings is that he tackles too much.
That's food for thought, about tackling, don't you think?
posted on 18/1/18
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 20 minutes ago
Sadly, tackling seems to be a dying component in modern day football since it’s slowly becoming a non contact sport
===========================================================
Xabi Alonso once said that when you are being coached in Spain, you are taught that tackling is a last resort, and that you have failed to manage your opponent if you have to resort to it.
Which I found interesting, because I've always thought, when playing as well as watching, that there is such a thing as too much tackling.
I've seen Hansen, too, saying that if you couldn't be sure of winning the ball, you're better off, sometimes, letting the forward have it. (and that if you manage him properly, he won't do much with it anyway).
Lovren, for me, is a better player than his current reputation would suggest, but I think one of his failings is that he tackles too much.
That's food for thought, about tackling, don't you think?
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He does go in hard doesn't he, Wessie, but not as Lucas did. He seemed to be giving free kicks in dangerous areas away like there's no tomorrow.
The tackles on Sunday were, bye and large, more intense than I've seen from the Reds for some time, hence this post. In the past - a la Watford - we didn't seem up to it. The aggression just wasn't there, and when confronted, head on, with aggression, couldn't handle it properly.
But a 1 Father says, we still have this inability to shut a game down, Jose-style. It seems beyond us. Is it because JK wants all-out attack, no surrender, for the whole game?
It certainly seems like it.
posted on 18/1/18
Is it because JK wants all-out attack, no surrender, for the whole game?
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Well, maybe, but he must’ve noticed by now that game-management has become a problem, against certain types of team, and surely not at all costs? (given how frustrated he looks when the meltdowns happen).
These are points that were just there for the taking, and if your frustrate your opponent, they're likely to over-commit and allow you to pick them off, anyway.
We're really only talking about small periods of games, it's not really a major compromise of his 'heavy metal' football (he's not going to do that, and I wouldn't want him to, I love it)
posted on 19/1/18
Jimmy, you see seem Scottish, are you Scottish?
posted on 19/1/18
tackles can be mistaken for sliding in and creaming a player.
Our side makes plenty of stand up tackles, winning the ball. thats they type of challenge that shows you are in control and in the right positions.
A last ditch sliding challenge looks heroic but you've got out of position to need to do it. Or someone has and you have to try fix it.
Now a days players flop over at the merest breeze as well. so its hard to actually make a tackle in the opponents half. refs give them to all the time. breathe on a defender and he falls over.. free.
you have it though and they pull out of you and its hard to get a free.