Pep Guardiola.
Great at coaching world class footballers to play in a way that dominates the opposition, produces goals and is easy on the eye. No question.
City fans don't take well to it, but the subject of money just keeps coming up.
Look at any online article or just listen to conversations in the pub - when City are praised for their football or a specific result, there is a deluge of comments from fans across the football spectrum about how much money they have spent to get there.
We can (and have done!) debate how this spending compares with clubs like United and whether it is 'fair'.
But my question is, will it harm Pep's legacy?
If he turns City into a dominant force in England and Europe for years to come, will people continue to raise the issue of money and will the money he has spent taint his achievements?
Of course City fans won't care when they're parading the PL trophy. Of course Pep won't care when he's celebrating with his staff.
But I think it's still a fair question.
My view?
I think it will to a degree, unless he starts to show he can develop youth and integrate these players into his teams.
The defence at City is the part that really stands out for me - spending that much money on individuals has suggested that Pep needs a chequebook to slot the right player into position, rather than developing a 'lesser' player. It's a criticism I have of Mourinho, as well.
Personally I feel you just can't level the 'chequebook manager' accusation at SAF, though I appreciate the game has moved on a fair bit since his best days.
Will Pep's legacy be tainted by money?
posted on 15/2/18
supacity (U15520)
Does it matter?
A lot of money has been spent and if it's mainly been on back up players this year then arguably that only enhances the point!
posted on 15/2/18
But so many detractors, yourself included, talk about the money spent as if that's the be all and end all.
It isn't, especially as those expensive purchases aren't even playing (injured or not selected).
I heard one pundit talk about Man City's £200M defence against Basle when it was nowhere near that, but still expensive at about £130M.
All that's been happening for the last few years is people take a different stick to try and beat city with. They fail and then move on.
It's how much the owner invested.
It's the Etihad sponsorship deal.
It's the sponsorship deals from abroad.
It's the amount of money spent on players.
It's all about the net spend.
It's about the empty stadium.
Its about no kids in the first team.
It's about no academy players in the first team.
Etc.
It just goes on and on. Can't beat us on the pitch, look for excuses off the pitch.
posted on 15/2/18
supacity (U15520)
"But so many detractors, yourself included, talk about the money spent as if that's the be all and end all"
That is absolute nonsense - an outright lie.
This has been a decent thread with a decent discussion but posts like that are just whiny with no real credible basis.
posted on 15/2/18
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 23 hours, 47 minutes ago
Of course his legacy will be tainted by money. Any manager with the money he has at his disposal would be in a similar position.
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Not really , look at Mourinho
posted on 15/2/18
Feyenoord Champions - #shavethedonkeys (U1250)
The difference is that Mourinho isn't achieving much.
posted on 15/2/18
It just goes on and on. Can't beat us on the pitch, look for excuses off the pitch.
....................
Maybe because Man City are finally up there again people use this lol. The past 3 seasons Man City have been poor especially in the big games. Now they are back to where they are expected to be the hatred comes out.
posted on 15/2/18
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by FishMCFC (U16301)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
The way I view Pep is like the criticism that F1 drivers get, when they have they best most reliable car and the biggest budgets....yes they still have to get it around the track which takes great skill but in every other respect they have an advantage that is largely unrelated to their ability.
I enjoy F1 and have been delighted to see Hamilton win the title in recent years but when his car is so superior to others that it is almost a formality, it does detract from how i view the achievement. It's when in seasons like the last one when he's had true competition and adverse situations to deal with that he really shows his quality.
We all know Pep is highly skilled. But in the adverse situations of last season, when he didnt have all the player he wanted, when they got a few injuries they slipped up. Conte won the league in his first year, potentially a much greater achievement than Pep doing it this year having spent another £270m.
If a team like Huddersfield, Brighton and Newcastle can stay up, I'd have that as much greater achievements that what Pep will achieve by winning the league. Not to say City walking it is no great achievement, but they have the best car, the biggest budgets and more spare parts than other teams.
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That is a valid point but to draw comparisons with Conte is spurious
He had the luxury of 4 new signings at a cost of £100m+ and no European Competition which allowed him to keep his players fresh and concentrate on the League Program
Compare that to this season and his limitations have been exposed. This is with the luxury of an additional £150m + spent on players this season
Guardiola on the other hand, has spent a year working with what he had and then addressed the problems in his squad during this summer.
The result? Competing on all four fronts whilst Conte flounders and waits for the axe to fall in the Summer.
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Conte took 10 th placed Chelsea. Spent £100m and won the title.
Pep took a very very decent Cuty squad that onlybrwally under achieved after they announced Pep mid season. He spent £160m and came miles behind Chelsea in 3rd
Since then City have spent more than double Chelsea and got the players they wanted. Conte has admitted he needs to better convince his employeers to get the players he wants.
Pep has spent £430m. Way more than Conte.
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Based on these figures, it would seem that Guardiola has only spent £60.0m more than Conte over the 4 windows since the Summer of 2016
Conte's Spending
2016 - 17 Summer £118m
2017 - 18 Summer £185m
2017 - 18 Winter £ 50m
Total £353m
Guardiola's spending
2016 - 17 Summer £130m
2016 - 17 Winter £ 27m
2017 - 18 Summer £199m
2017 - 18 Winter £ 57m
Total £413m
In today's market £60.0m equates to one quality player
Citing the example Conte taking a club from a 10th place finish is complete nonsense. Whilst it is indeed a fact, it is far from the actual reality of the situation.
Chelsea underperformed that season and should not have finished outside of the top 4.
Conte basically took a Champions League quality squad, that didn't have to play in European Competition and coasted to a League Title. And so he should have.
Had Guardiola been managing City in the same circumstances, with Chelsea in the CL, the basic expectation would have been that he should win the title.
Chelsea have spent money on incoming transfers comparable to City's outlay. The difference between the two outlays in effectively the Laporte signing,
Conte is not and never will be in Guardiola's league, regardless of how much money is spent.
For all the money spent, Conte has achieved very little.
posted on 15/2/18
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 45 minutes ago
It just goes on and on. Can't beat us on the pitch, look for excuses off the pitch.
....................
Maybe because Man City are finally up there again people use this lol. The past 3 seasons Man City have been poor especially in the big games. Now they are back to where they are expected to be the hatred comes out.
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I’m going to faint. Haif’s Account must have been hacked
posted on 15/2/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 21 minutes ago
Feyenoord Champions - #shavethedonkeys (U1250)
The difference is that Mourinho isn't achieving much.
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Thats what I meant, I maybe misunderstood what Sandy said. Not every manager with money will be successful, look at Koeman at Everton, spent a bucket load and got sacked.
posted on 15/2/18
Feyenoord Champions - #shavethedonkeys (U1250)
Of course.
It has been widely acknowledged throughout the thread that Pep is doing a fantastic job and that the money spent isn't a guarantee that success of this nature will follow.