In a team sport, the concept has never really made sense but its been a thing since the world has been obsessed about the persona and football celebrity. Some deserving players have failed to win it, Thierry Henry springs to mind, Some should never have won the prize, Cannavaro springs to mind.
But that's just my opinion. On the whole, the entire concept is kinda flawed. Things were easier when Ronaldo and Messi won it between themselves for 10 years as they were far and above the best 2 players for a long time. The whole thing was fudged when people felt that because Modric had come second in the world cup and won a CL he deserved it more than Messi or Ronaldo
Like WTF, its either Modric is the best player in the world or not.Of which we all know he wasn't last year. Coming to this years prize, I have a bit of sympathy for van Dijk.The guy is a great bloke, a great pro and has unfairly been put in Modric's situation of (anything but Messi or Ronaldo choice) which he has now lost out and fairly in my opinion.
The criteria for choosing these players has always been interesting and debatable and I always had a problem with the opinion that van Dijk was the obvious choice. Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement. Just because he is Messi must never down grade the achievement. Sterling or Mane must never win it just because Ronaldo or Messi have dropped standards.They must win it because they have surpassed the standards. We have all of a sudden created some ridiculous low bar so that other players can win footballs top awards and I find it ridiculous.
van Dijk should win the Ballon d'Or award in December which is decided by journalists as he got the majority of journalists votes in last nights vote.
Van Dijk earned 462 votes from journalists to Messi's 364 and Ronaldo's 264. Of the captains, Messi received 377 votes, ahead of Virgil van Dijk's 337 and Cristiano Ronaldo's 330.
What was interesting was the coaches vote where Messi got 379 votes, beating Ronaldo (307) and Van Dijk (289). This is where I also feel that an attacker must always have an advantage in these awards compared to a defender who in van Dijks case enjoys the protection of essentially 3 defensive midfielders hence why I feel Cannavaro should never have won the award in the first place.
What was more telling though was the popularity vote where van dijk fared dismally compared to Messi and Ronaldo. Messi got 1,359,728 votes to the Portuguese's 962,919 and the Dutchman's 704,235.
This is simply where van dijk's smaller profile let him down but should that matter in a yearly vote. Personally the best footballer in the world must always win it, his achievements must count but it must always be the best footballer period.
Thoughts!
Individual Sport Prizes
posted on 25/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 20 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
I quoted you TOOR, there's no point in re-writing it.
"what does a defender have to do to compare to what Messi did last season?"
Both the initial comment and this one is laughable imo.
Completely different players, completely different effects on the game and judged completely differently. Name the best players ever and how many defenders come to mind?
The fact is that Messi will always be a better player than VVD.
The only way you can make a case for VVD to win an award is, as you say, considering specific criteria like influence on the team he is in.
I've read the thread and part way through I laughed at your comment because it is stupid. I have explained why.
Hope this helps.
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Yes, I agree with all that, I never stated anything different. You just failed to read the thread and therefore picked out a specific comment without the context that came before it.
Read the thread.
posted on 25/9/19
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
You'll deny anything.
Here's what you said:
"I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker."
I'm saying this is horsesheite.
Sure, you can take one thing like influence and compare it - but you can't make an overall comparison... it's nonsense, because Messi is a much better player who does a lot more on a football pitch than VVD.
The sentence above actually made me laugh aloud.
posted on 25/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
You'll deny anything.
Here's what you said:
"I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker."
I'm saying this is horsesheite.
Sure, you can take one thing like influence and compare it - but you can't make an overall comparison... it's nonsense, because Messi is a much better player who does a lot more on a football pitch than VVD.
The sentence above actually made me laugh aloud.
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Read the thread. That's all I'm going to say on this matter going forward as it's pointless otherwise.
posted on 25/9/19
I've read it.
Your comment is laughable and you know it, which is why you're not trying to defend it.
posted on 25/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
I've read it.
Your comment is laughable and you know it, which is why you're not trying to defend it.
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Sigh.
posted on 25/9/19
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
Which is fair enough. I didn't watch a lot of Messi but his stats say he was one of the best in the world again. I watched a lot of VVD and I say he was one of the best in the world. I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker. He also scored goals, assisted them, was a huge calming influence on the side and built attacks from the back. So for me he was over and above normal defensive work, which he also did outstandingly well.
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I've helped you out as you're clearly struggling.
Above is when I asked what people thought a defender had to do to compare against goals and assists. I then went on to explain what I felt VVD as a defender that compared to what Messi did as an attacker, which included his influence on the side.
So what I'm saying is VVD's influence on the side(in was a much as Messi's influence and VVD's influence was on a side that achieved 97 league points and a CL trophy. For me that means VVD was a better player over the past year. It's impossible to compare a defender against the goals and assists of an attacker, just like you can't compare an attacker in terms of blocks, clearances, tackles, take-ons etc. However what you can compare is their influence on the team. This is what I said.
posted on 25/9/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
I've read it.
Your comment is laughable and you know it, which is why you're not trying to defend it.
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Sigh.
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Another non-response.. classic TOOR.
posted on 25/9/19
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
No - you're now lying to try and save face.
In the post above, you start by asking a fair question but then you ruin it when you try to answer it.
"I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker."
Dress it up as you like, this is nonsense.
That comparison that you have just tried to make is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here, which is saying something.
posted on 25/9/19
"comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
No - you're now lying to try and save face"
Wow. I'm out.
posted on 25/9/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
"comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
No - you're now lying to try and save face"
Wow. I'm out.
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Of course you are. You can't defend your comment and you can't admit you're wrong, so you need to leave.
Standard TOOR.