As we are near the denouement I thought I would try to put the pros and cons as I see them.
It has caused a big divide and a lot of name calling, but it is not as clear cut as some make out.
If we leave :
We will be free to make our own decisions, our elected parliament will be able to choose what they think is the best way forward.
We will be free to make trade deals with the rest of the world, as well as with the EU; Hopefully we can resurrect trade with all the Commonwealth countries to the same level as previously.
There will be a financial saving to the tune of however much we currently pay the EU net.
We will become more democratic as the council of Europe will have no sway over us.
Against this some things are sure;
Border controls will take longer and involve more paperwork, definitely for goods, and to some extent the rest of us.
Some businesses will move abroad, the ones that are foreign owned and trade mainly with Europe will see that their prospects will be better in an EU country.
Some prices will go up, due to tariffs.
We will lose some clout with the rest of the world. Large blocs such as China and the USA listen to the EU more than they will to the UK;
Some investment companies and banks will relocate to Europe.
_________________________________________________
Some things that may or may not happen depending on the complexion of our government.
Their could be a relaxation of rights of workers.
There could be less protection generally (climate, medicines, air quality, water quality etc) as the EU has strict standards compared to most.
Immigration will stay around the same level.
EU nationals will be less likely to want to come and work here, time will tell if that is good or bad.
Holidays in Europe will become a little more complicated and expensive.
_________________________________________________
There will be plenty of other changes, some I have missed and some that will only become apparent later.
For myself I would like to remain, I like the freedom to move, live and work in 27 different countries with different cultures, simply and easily.
I like being part of a larger bloc for defence and trade.
But if others choose the other way they too have their reasons, it will be a decade at least before we can truly look back and see if we were right to leave.
The ususal disclaimer. I'm not an expert and it is personal opinion.
Brexit.....again
posted on 22/10/19
comment by It's Champion's League Final day (U22023)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
All of those against are untrue. Tariffs won't go up but come down except for our own industries we want to protect. At the moment we protect the 000s of goods we don't make being in the EU's protectionist bloc. Banks haven't left. Overseas investment has never been higher and once the uncertainty is out of the way investment will soar. In Greater Manchester they saved 1/2 the Green Belt that was due to be warehousing based purely on population projections. Doctors, housing, wages, public services should all get a boost too. All positives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How the fack can tariffs go down from zero?
posted on 22/10/19
comment by It's Champion's League Final day (U22023)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
btw
let's not kid ourselves and think just a few places have the hand in the eu till.
yes Wales gets a chunk
but every single farm across the length and breadth of two islands and smaller little dots.on the map get subsidies out of eu. the UK government will foot the bill or they will all collapse.
NI has it's hand out big time.
Wales sure
but people need to realise that there's 40 odd years of economic development to unravel here.
this is only.the precursor to the big bang event. on day 1 of the shiny new independent UK no rules will be very different. most bills will get a new header that is all.
there will be years upon years of changes coming.
the brexit dividend is a pipe dream.
the no deal wallop is not. that's a disastrous unnecessary impact.
I have believed since last december that a ge was required but here we are in October still needing one to complete whatever deal is there.
GE needed. pass whatever by consent of new parliament and elect said parliament on the mandate of brexit.
really simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
EU farming subsidy i.e. our cash is £4 billion which will continue after Brexit. The North has been shafted for years with London needing to build big infrastructure projects to cope with growing populations so northern towns should get more.
Economists for free trade are multiple professors of economics and trade experts and know that no deal could even be better for the UK in the long run.
We already trade with China and the US on WTO terms where we could reduce tariffs if we wanted. Teslas 10% cheaper anyone. Lots of media lies abound.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reduce tariffs if we wanted
Yep we've just decided not to reduce them just for the fun of it.
posted on 22/10/19
This is the same guy that came out with this classic recently:-
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 week, 6 days ago
comment by It's Champion's League Final day (U22023)
posted 1 minute ago
The EU did not back Liverpool, it's all UK taxpayer money. 6 of the 10 poorest regions in northern Europe are in the UK, the EU promoted diesel engines that are poisoning people in Liverpool all day every day.
A lot of the deprived parts of the country are towns that voted to leave the EU precisely because cities get the big money. My town only recently got a new bus station.
As for Manchester, all true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah the EU did nothing except provide funding for:-
Queen Square
John Lennon Airport, not sure if you remember but it was falling apart in the 90s
Public roads and railway
New bus centre and railway station for Birkenhead town centre
Investment and reclamation of land in Knowsley which attracted the likes of QVC who invested £80m in the operation and created 2500 jobs.
New Brighton and the Floral Pavillion investment in the area attracting new businesses and increasing custom for the resort.
The largest EU investment nationally at £50m put into the Echo Arena.
£9m investment into the cruise line terminal
Investment into city centre and other things like foundations and crap totalling £12m
£3m towards funding for restoration of St George's Hall
Investment to restore Bluecoat
Investment in the largest cathedral in the UK
Funding for thousands of sq foot of office blocks
Funding for the theatre in St Helens
£8.3m for a new chord for railfreight to ease congestion
£285m invested to develop the skills of the people of Merseyside
But yes apart from that nothing.
posted on 23/10/19
Boris Johnson’s Drag Name : Diana Ditch.
(Mark Gatiss : Twitter)
posted on 23/10/19
Sizzle can you unfilter me? I agree with you politically and in every other way. Even sexually. Please.
posted on 23/10/19
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/10/19
Get digging Bozo you fecking clown!
posted on 23/10/19
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
Get digging Bozo you fecking clown!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like your Friday threads. You should do more of them. I like puns and words that sound like animals and other stuff like that. I would be an asset to the thread if you unfiltered me and started the threads again. I miss them.
posted on 23/10/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 20 hours, 59 minutes ago
It seems as though much of our attitudes to Brexit now is driven by fatigue: not a sense of enthusiasm that it will bring about national renewal (those claims of prosperity are barely part of the pro-Brexit media narrative now) but rather that we need to 'get it done'. The problems with this are:
1) It puts pressure on our political system to wave through whatever deal our dishonest PM puts before them without proper scrutiny of impacts and implications.
2) Even if this is all achieved by 31st October, that's not the end of it, it's only the end of the beginning. We then move on to the negotiations over the future relationship and trade deal, which raise many of the same thorny issues and trade-offs between minimising friction & economic damage on one hand, and maximising the UK's ability to create bilateral trade deals with vibrant, chlorinated chicken-based economies on the other. Only this time, we will be negotiating with the EU as a third party rather than as a member. Though the EU have been portrayed as the enemy over the last three years, they have in fact tried hard to help the UK reach a deal, to find some common ground between their own and the UK's red lines. They've done a deal with May and now with Johnson. After Brexit, we will experience a very different EU - not an adversary, but a self-interested organisation which will drive the best deal in the interests of their member states, using their tough-as-nails trade negotiators who know very well how to leverage their advantage as a one of the world's three super-powered trading blocs over smaller economies that want access to their markets.
If Brexit goes through in the coming weeks or months, we can look forward to much more of the same grim, exhausting struggle. Only with the deck now stacked against us, the economy depressed, and no escape button to press (either to actually change our minds or as leverage in negotiations).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very well put and absolutely spot on
posted on 23/10/19
100.....
....years until Brexshit!