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Orta - poser with a cellphone?

Orta was the subject of a lot of anger and even, derision, when he arrived off the back of an horrendous record at Boro. The omens were not good. Boro fans were quick to alert us to his deficiencies and our likely return back to the first division. His first moves in the transfer market were to bring in a number of players who were untried at this level. Many fell by the wayside, like Saiz, but we have some notable stayers - Roberts, Klich and Forshaw. As for Bamford, we can safely agree the jury is out on this one.
I took a dislike to the guy because he was always photographed with a phone next to his ear. It conveyed the message that he didn't have time to relate to the fans, because he had far more important business to attend to. However, he has fronted up to supporters about the way he runs his transfer policy, and his relationship with Bielsa.
He was responsible for some failed loan deals, such as Baker and Brown, but he was instrumental in bringing Nketiah and White to the club. Ultimately, though, he was behind the deal to bring Bielsa to Leeds. We talk about the transformational impact Bielsa has had on the players and the club, but does anyone think Leeds was on his radar before Orta flew out to meet him? Bielsa certainly clouds the view of Orta's performance, in my view, because Orta clearly defers to him in a way our previous coches could only dream of. We have to ask, has Orta made some great finds, or has Bielsa transformed these finds into great players? How good an acquisition would Ben White be without Bielsa's guidance?
I acknowledge that I have omitted a lot of information here, and would welcome posters to add their facts, recollections and opinions. What is the current view on Orta's performance for Leeds - is he one of our unsung heroes or is he a poser with a cell-phone?

comment by Sol (U2745)

posted 3 weeks, 6 days ago

comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
The system Orta uses is a good one, the way he uses it, or should I say the choices he makes from it are very very poor.

Here are the players he has signed (I don't count Jansson who was already on loan), many of them already moved on, very very few have proven to be successes, this list is a major reason why we have no money:

Forshaw
Saiz
Roberts
Alioski
Klich
De Bock
Sacko
Cibicki
Grot
Ideguchi
Halme
Ekuban
Wiedwald
Anita
Bouy
Lonergan
Gomes
Dalby
Pennington
Stevens
Borthwick-Johnson
Lasogga
Anotonsson
Bamford
Douglas
Bogusz
Casilla
Harrison
Baker
Blackman
Brown
Davis
White
Costa
Nketiah
Meslier
McCarron
Xeka
Miazek
Edmondson
Siddiqi
Diaz
Rey
Balboa
Strujik
Temenuzhkov
Hosannah
Sarkic
Mujica
Amor

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some decent players in that list. Some $hite too, mind.

Lots of youth players who it may be soon to write off, some youth players who've moved on (some even at a profit).

And who is Xeka? Must have passed me by.

comment by Jonty (U4614)

posted 3 weeks, 6 days ago

Do you think Orta has been less reckless in the last year as Bielsa exerts more influence over incomings and outgoings?
——-
Loanees baker (a few months), brown (a few months), Blackman (a few months) and harrison cost us 5 mill last season.

We have more loanees this season, which will cost even more and Clarke not played messier not played...

Wage bill is now 40 mill

And finally, we have to pay 15 mil for costa even if we don’t go up.

I think it’s utterly reckless.

comment by Sol (U2745)

posted 3 weeks, 6 days ago

comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 45 minutes ago
Do you think Orta has been less reckless in the last year as Bielsa exerts more influence over incomings and outgoings?
——-
Loanees baker (a few months), brown (a few months), Blackman (a few months) and harrison cost us 5 mill last season.

We have more loanees this season, which will cost even more and Clarke not played messier not played...

Wage bill is now 40 mill

And finally, we have to pay 15 mil for costa even if we don’t go up.

I think it’s utterly reckless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't factor in player sales then. Mental.

posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

Jonty, looking at the wage bill for clubs in this division last season, we were not excessive. This is not to say there is no merit in your argument, but perhaps it is the hit-and-miss nature of the business that makes it so costly. Is Orta any worse than others in the same role at other clubs?
http://financialfootballnews.com/championship-2018-finances-wages/

posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

Don't think VO has done particularity well. He wields a lot of power at Leeds but think he has wasted a lot of time and money on certain players.

posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

*particularly

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)

posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

What's the alternative? Buying journeymen like McBurney for 20m? Orta's miss list is certainly longer than his hit list...but the big hit, the one that's made all the world of difference, is Bielsa.

So, in answer to the original question, yes, Orta's success has been based on, almost completely, the appointment of Bielsa. Don't know if it was his idea but it was inspired, whatever happens this year. There has been a sea-change in the club's playing style and the fans have been very pleased to see it, after so many years of dross. You hail back to the Garry Monk tenure but that is nothing compared to what Bielsa's pulled off in the short time he's been with us.

Orta struck lucky but I agree with Jonty that his appointments to the playing staff have not been particularly inspiring, and this is aggravated by the poor contract negotiations which seem to have given amazingly long contracts to bit-players. That in turn prevented us from bagging players like James last January - when we really needed him. Instead we got Costa for 15, which seems a very dodgy purchase price to me.



posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

James was a big big miss.

comment by Jonty (U4614)

posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 6 hours, 2 minutes ago
Jonty, looking at the wage bill for clubs in this division last season, we were not excessive. This is not to say there is no merit in your argument, but perhaps it is the hit-and-miss nature of the business that makes it so costly. Is Orta any worse than others in the same role at other clubs?
http://financialfootballnews.com/championship-2018-finances-wages/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our wages as now £40m according to AR that’s a massive rise from an already high £31m.

posted 3 weeks, 4 days ago

comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
James was a big big miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the single biggest reason we failed to go up. In my opinion, of course...

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