Social distancing

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 3 hours, 18 minutes ago
Leedsfan for 45years, why are BAME people dying from the virus at a much greater rate than whites in the UK, do you think? Remember Stephen Lawrence? How about the Windrush scandal?

Virtue signalling? You're kidding right? Racism and xenophobia have become highly visible again in the early C21st - there's no way anyone can claim that the UK is a haven of multiculturalism and tolerance for the "other," particularly since the Brexit referendum. I won't even discuss Trump and his dog-whistling, but Johnson likes to talk about watermelon smiles and letter boxes.

People are protesting because they've had ENOUGH of the structural racism which blights so many lives. The pandemic has only made this deeply engrained systemic racism more visible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok - I'll try to address the points you made:

There are a few theories about why BAME people have a higher death rate than others. Some studies say that it's social deprivation (poor food = poor health). Some say that it's a higher ratio of BAME workers who are at the front line in the NHS and carehomes (not sure where I saw that). Others mention a possible genetic link. Nobody really knows for sure, but it certainly isn't anything to do with "Stephen Lawrence" or "Windrush". I just don't get where you are going with those references.

One would argue that racism never went away. Xenophobia never went away. I've never claimed that the UK is a haven of multiculturism - just that it's one of the better-integrated countries in the world. There will be better than us. For sure the US is much, much worse.

I wondered when someone might raise the "Brexit" card. Brexiters aren't by definition racists or xenophobes. There are definitely racists and xenophobes who are Brexiters. They form the idiot minority who are ever-present in any organisation - just ask the Jewish members of the Labour Party.

Leavers wanted to leave the EU. I voted Leave. I wanted to leave the EU's anti-democratic protectionist scam of an organisation. I love France and the French (southern French are far nicer than northern) Italy/Italians and Spain. I've worked in Germany, France, Italy, the US, Irish Republic and even China over my career and made friends in all places. I attempted to speak the lingo where practical and sampled the culture. I'm not a "little Englander" by any stretch of the imagination. Leave = Leave the EU, not Europe. Hopefully that's clarification enough for you.

Boris has a mouth that is often faster than his brain. He's an eccentric, but he's most definitely multicultural. He's got a blended family. It's just his propensity for colourful imagery in his prose (no pun intended) which lets him down at times. Idiot - sometimes. Racist - no. When he mentioned the letter boxes, he was defending the ongoing right for Muslim women to wear the Hijab & Niqab.

As for the "gang of protesters" - I wasn't trying to be slick. The phrase seemed to fit. Mob might have been a better word.
There was violence and vandalism reported today. There were arrests, but no serious injuries. One protester got hurt by a bottle thrown towards police by another protester. A policeman appeared to be punched in the face while having his head pushed into a wall by one guy who was resisting arrest. All pretty low-key and all very much "the UK".

My original comment was just that - in my opinion - anyone demonstrating about a US issue over here is just jumping on the bandwagon so they can go have a good "protest" at something or they are there to show others "how much they care" (i.e. virtue signalling) which is sickening to me.

By all means show support to George Floyd and any others that are oppressed, but don't do it by spreading Covid-19 and therefore (if initial findings are accurate) risk killing more BAME people in the UK who are particularly vulnerable.

I would care more about that than my own personal need for a public display of anger.

I would care more about that than my own personal need for a public display of anger
----
I don't think they're doing it for a public display of anger. I I think they are genuinely trying to change the way black people are treated in some places in this world, not just to show anger in public.

A lot of protests have been peaceful. Why would thousands of white folk in Amsterdam be interested in a public display of anger? Majority of places remain peaceful.

Is it a need for displaying anger in public or is it a fight for human rights? Depends on how one is inclined to interpret it. If that's how you interpret it, as 'a need for a public display of anger' then that explains your stand.

It depends on you're understanding or interpretation of the issues. Some will feel Covid is more of a concern, others won't.

Covid will pass. Hundreds of years of racism and discrimination have not just passed. Racism and discrimination has killed and will continue to kill far more black people than Covid ever will.

Personally I'm glad these millions of people have found it fit to get up off their ass and go out in the sun and harsh conditions in some places, just to show solidarity and to condemn oppression

comment by Jurgen Klopp (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
I would care more about that than my own personal need for a public display of anger
----
I don't think they're doing it for a public display of anger. I I think they are genuinely trying to change the way black people are treated in some places in this world, not just to show anger in public.

A lot of protests have been peaceful. Why would thousands of white folk in Amsterdam be interested in a public display of anger? Majority of places remain peaceful.

Is it a need for displaying anger in public or is it a fight for human rights? Depends on how one is inclined to interpret it. If that's how you interpret it, as 'a need for a public display of anger' then that explains your stand.

It depends on you're understanding or interpretation of the issues. Some will feel Covid is more of a concern, others won't.

Covid will pass. Hundreds of years of racism and discrimination have not just passed. Racism and discrimination has killed and will continue to kill far more black people than Covid ever will.

Personally I'm glad these millions of people have found it fit to get up off their ass and go out in the sun and harsh conditions in some places, just to show solidarity and to condemn oppression
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There seems to be a very angry element in some of these demonstrations, but I concede your point that the majority are showing (for whatever reason) solidarity with the BAME community.

Peaceful demonstration of such solidarity is to be applauded - I just feel strongly that it isn't right to ignore the current social distancing regulations in order to do so.

There are many other ways in which people could show their support for such a cause. They could donate money to the Black Lives Matter cause. They could blog, vlog, petition, use social media - all of which are powerful platforms and all of which pose no risk to others with regard to Covid.

Perhaps I'm more sensitive to the dangers of the virus as I'm shielding vulnerable loved ones still, but when I saw the crowds and saw the police having to engage with them I also saw red and mentally branded them "virtue signalling fools".

I did manage to suppress my urge to go out with a placard saying so though.

Yeah, and tbh I only disagreed with the part about virtue signalling. I can't argue with facts though, ignoring the covid regulations certainly presents a conundrum and cause for concern, especially if you have vulnerable loved ones. Respect to that.

comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 7 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Jurgen Klopp (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
I would care more about that than my own personal need for a public display of anger
----
I don't think they're doing it for a public display of anger. I I think they are genuinely trying to change the way black people are treated in some places in this world, not just to show anger in public.

A lot of protests have been peaceful. Why would thousands of white folk in Amsterdam be interested in a public display of anger? Majority of places remain peaceful.

Is it a need for displaying anger in public or is it a fight for human rights? Depends on how one is inclined to interpret it. If that's how you interpret it, as 'a need for a public display of anger' then that explains your stand.

It depends on you're understanding or interpretation of the issues. Some will feel Covid is more of a concern, others won't.

Covid will pass. Hundreds of years of racism and discrimination have not just passed. Racism and discrimination has killed and will continue to kill far more black people than Covid ever will.

Personally I'm glad these millions of people have found it fit to get up off their ass and go out in the sun and harsh conditions in some places, just to show solidarity and to condemn oppression
----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by Jurgen Klopp (U1282)
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
I would care more about that than my own personal need for a public display of anger
----
I don't think they're doing it for a public display of anger. I I think they are genuinely trying to change the way black people are treated in some places in this world, not just to show anger in public.

A lot of protests have been peaceful. Why would thousands of white folk in Amsterdam be interested in a public display of anger? Majority of places remain peaceful.

Is it a need for displaying anger in public or is it a fight for human rights? Depends on how one is inclined to interpret it. If that's how you interpret it, as 'a need for a public display of anger' then that explains your stand.

It depends on you're understanding or interpretation of the issues. Some will feel Covid is more of a concern, others won't.

Covid will pass. Hundreds of years of racism and discrimination have not just passed. Racism and discrimination has killed and will continue to kill far more black people than Covid ever will.

Personally I'm glad these millions of people have found it fit to get up off their ass and go out in the sun and harsh conditions in some places, just to show solidarity and to condemn oppression
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how do you know covid will pass? the only infectious disease humans have only ever eradicated is Smallpox.

have no issue with protests, things is it attracts some unsavory characters who are intent on some kind of destruction against the establishment no matter what. however as we find ourselves amid a pandemic, they are putting not only their own lives at risk. brave some may?

how do you know covid will pass? the only infectious disease humans have only ever eradicated is Smallpox.
-----
Passing and eradication are not the same thing though. Many diseases have passed without being eradicated.

How many coronaviruses have her been in history. They've all passed. There is also the immunoty debate and remains to be seen whether people are immune after having it. Also, they are working on a vaccine.

The history of corona viruses and the info coming out makes me believe covid will pass.


have no issue with protests, things is it attracts some unsavory characters who are intent on some kind of destruction against the establishment no matter what. however as we find ourselves amid a pandemic, they are putting not only their own lives at risk. brave some may?
-----
All this is true. Everybody knows the protests could likely attract such people, it happens often. I have the same concerns as you re covid but it pales in comparison to the harm that inequality and racism is doing to the world IMO and has been doing for hundreds of years. I am not in a place where I feel covid is a bigger concern, and that's not to disrespect covid. I accept others may see it differently.

comment by Jurgen Klopp (U1282)
posted 19 minutes ago
how do you know covid will pass? the only infectious disease humans have only ever eradicated is Smallpox.
-----
Passing and eradication are not the same thing though. Many diseases have passed without being eradicated.

How many coronaviruses have her been in history. They've all passed. There is also the immunoty debate and remains to be seen whether people are immune after having it. Also, they are working on a vaccine.

The history of corona viruses and the info coming out makes me believe covid will pass.


have no issue with protests, things is it attracts some unsavory characters who are intent on some kind of destruction against the establishment no matter what. however as we find ourselves amid a pandemic, they are putting not only their own lives at risk. brave some may?
-----
All this is true. Everybody knows the protests could likely attract such people, it happens often. I have the same concerns as you re covid but it pales in comparison to the harm that inequality and racism is doing to the world IMO and has been doing for hundreds of years. I am not in a place where I feel covid is a bigger concern, and that's not to disrespect covid. I accept others may see it differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

we do not hear about many viruses.....passing is not eradicating. covid mutates / has mutated, it is still prevalent, it is only cos the outbreak became a pandemic we know. huge gatherings will only escalate the situation by putting many lives at risk. yup we see things different, if covid is not controlled it will kill millions