Am I being cynical in thinking that

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 32 minutes ago
If we were in the1930s, you’d be against taking in Jews from Germany.

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Jews from 1930's Germany were fleeing persecution which makes them refugees. The reasons you stated doesn't make these people refugees, France isn't a warzone. No agenda here, the people with an agenda are the ones lying about refugees and then throwing about insults and accusations when you get set straight.
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Accepting that you don’t like the fact that people pass through ‘safe’ countries in order to get to the UK, which is a separate discussion, can you at least acknowledge that people have a right to see asylum here?

What I mean is that whilst you might not like it, do you accept that genuine asylum seekers (the vast majority) aren’t actually doing anything wrong in the eyes of the society and laws we live under?
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I have no problem with genuine asylum seekers and I've never said otherwise. If these people were genuinely fleeing a warzone or persecution for whatever reason they'd be happy just to reach safety, not risk their lives again when they can claim asylum in one of the richest countries. I'm not blaming individuals Im talking about the system being abused and people losing faith in the system when they see it being abused so blatantly.
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But that’s not really what I asked.

Our society and our laws dictate that the people you’re referring to have a legal right to do what they’re doing, assuming their claim for asylum is genuine.

Nearly 95% of people arriving in the UK in this way are deemed to have a genuine claim.

I’m not asking if you are happy about this, only that you do at least accept they’re not doing anything wrong. Is that fair?

I think a big part of the problem is the hold that the smugglers have over these desperate people. They sell them a dream of reaching the UK and being pampered, so they can take their ‘fee’ for getting them there. It’s essentially people smuggling and it’s the victims that take the abuse for it.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 32 minutes ago
If we were in the1930s, you’d be against taking in Jews from Germany.

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Jews from 1930's Germany were fleeing persecution which makes them refugees. The reasons you stated doesn't make these people refugees, France isn't a warzone. No agenda here, the people with an agenda are the ones lying about refugees and then throwing about insults and accusations when you get set straight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Accepting that you don’t like the fact that people pass through ‘safe’ countries in order to get to the UK, which is a separate discussion, can you at least acknowledge that people have a right to see asylum here?

What I mean is that whilst you might not like it, do you accept that genuine asylum seekers (the vast majority) aren’t actually doing anything wrong in the eyes of the society and laws we live under?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no problem with genuine asylum seekers and I've never said otherwise. If these people were genuinely fleeing a warzone or persecution for whatever reason they'd be happy just to reach safety, not risk their lives again when they can claim asylum in one of the richest countries. I'm not blaming individuals Im talking about the system being abused and people losing faith in the system when they see it being abused so blatantly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But that’s not really what I asked.

Our society and our laws dictate that the people you’re referring to have a legal right to do what they’re doing, assuming their claim for asylum is genuine.

Nearly 95% of people arriving in the UK in this way are deemed to have a genuine claim.

I’m not asking if you are happy about this, only that you do at least accept they’re not doing anything wrong. Is that fair?
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Whether it's legal depends on if they're refugees or economic migrants. Like someone said before people throw away their documents to help their asylum claim, the system is open to abuse and people know how to abuse it. As far as I'm concerned they're economic migrants because I can't think of a decent reason why anyone seeking safety needs to get on a boat from France to the UK.

Okay 8bit, I’m afraid the law and our society doesn’t agree with you in that respect.

You’re entitled to your opinion but you can’t redefine what a genuine asylum claim is and it’s disappointing that you can’t at least acknowledge that.

The other thing I’d urge you to consider is why asylum seekers travel through multiple European countries.

Even if you don’t accept some of those reasons, you must surely understand that if all asylum seekers simply stayed in the first ‘safe’ country that they come across, that wouldn’t be viable?

Aside from the bravado of the forum I’m sure if you read a little about it you would discover some things that make you feel differently, even if not change your mind.

There are a myriad of reasons why they would travel through multiple European countries.

They can speak our language, thus making it easier to integrate here.

They may have relatives here, irrespective of however distant.

They can legitimately claim financial help here.

We are a welcoming country by and large (which is to our credit).

We are a multicultural society (again to our credit).

Because of our healthcare.

Because of our education opportunities.

Because of accommodation.

Everything listed above are things that British passport holders and citizens are able to benefit from. And they are reasons why people would seek asylum here.

Take those reasons away, and less people will seek asylum here, but by the same token, the lives of British citizens would suffer as a result.

I’ve always found being protective over borders and nationalism in general quite a bizarre concept.

These are borders created hundreds of years ago that have changed many times and represent in many cases the whims of rulers using people as wealth.

Of course in a globalised world they represent an important part of a functioning economy, but why would you be so protective over something you did nothing to create and that you’ve simply played the lottery of life and ended up one side of a border instead of another?

Some people have legitimate concerns about how migration affects their life, but not many.

Most just seem to be intent on closing the gates to ‘our land’ without realising it’s the exact opposite approach that has enabled our economy to flourish.

comment by *Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 7 hours, 57 minutes ago
I'm getting very bored with the BBC calling them illegal. It's not illegal at all.
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How so?

comment by *Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 1 minute ago
I think you’ll find the nasty brown people who went on a stabbing spree were born here👍
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Haha is that right? I had no idea what the bigot was on about but I have little doubt that he's the kind of bloke that thinks Begum should be sent "home".

Genuinely nauseating.
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Haha, no he is not right. The Reading stabbing was committed by a Libyan refugee and the attacker in Glasgow was Sudanese.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 37 minutes ago
I’ve always found being protective over borders and nationalism in general quite a bizarre concept.

These are borders created hundreds of years ago that have changed many times and represent in many cases the whims of rulers using people as wealth.

Of course in a globalised world they represent an important part of a functioning economy, but why would you be so protective over something you did nothing to create and that you’ve simply played the lottery of life and ended up one side of a border instead of another?

Some people have legitimate concerns about how migration affects their life, but not many.

Most just seem to be intent on closing the gates to ‘our land’ without realising it’s the exact opposite approach that has enabled our economy to flourish.
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GB's border is the sea, no dispute there.

The borders in mainland Europe are a different thing though, they get re-drawn every few years.

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 37 minutes ago
I’ve always found being protective over borders and nationalism in general quite a bizarre concept.

These are borders created hundreds of years ago that have changed many times and represent in many cases the whims of rulers using people as wealth.

Of course in a globalised world they represent an important part of a functioning economy, but why would you be so protective over something you did nothing to create and that you’ve simply played the lottery of life and ended up one side of a border instead of another?

Some people have legitimate concerns about how migration affects their life, but not many.

Most just seem to be intent on closing the gates to ‘our land’ without realising it’s the exact opposite approach that has enabled our economy to flourish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GB's border is the sea, no dispute there.

The borders in mainland Europe are a different thing though, they get re-drawn every few years.
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It hasn’t always been that way, though granted it has for a very long time.

But that’s not really the point I’m making.