Spurs fans.
Just wondering how you reflect on the Lamela red card incident vs United.
It is clearly an exaggerated response by Lamela to the lightest of slaps in the face, and this sort of thing doesnt sit comfortably with me.
Having said that I feel slightly torn that so often we have been on the rough side of decisions like this. The Rudiger vs Son thing last season. It really aggravated me but basically Lamela has just done the same thing. Both red card decisions by the letter of the law but the reaction is what influences the decision.
VAR will put an end to this sort of thing once you see how little contact can end in a red. Intent & the slightest of contact is all that is needed.
I am glad Spurs are not naively playing matches feeling hard done by that their honesty is not rewarded, and are aware of the 'dark arts' and not afraid to embrace them. But i do not want to see us evolve in the Jose's early Chelsea team who perfected the art of diving.
Whatever you think about those 2 incidents, the Pogba challenge and the Shaw hack were far more dangerous - so another law that really doesnt make total sense.
Lamela
posted on 7/10/20
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 5 minutes ago
My 8 year old son is big for his age and an out and out greedy centre forward. He bullies defenders and smacks the ball into the net.
If he got tapped in the face like Lamela and went down (not that he does) I would be utterly ashamed and apologetic, so to see a grown man behaving like that doesn't sit well with me whether he plays for Spurs or not.
I say this as someone who likes Lamelas combative style and has often stuck up for him on here when he's getting slated.
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Sadly there are many aspects of the elite game which parents must feel ashamed about. Exaggeration is rife whether its fouls, contact, violent play.
VAR and the stupid handball rules are now creating a situation where everything is vigorously appealed for. Where defenders will exaggerate contact as it could lead to a goal being ruled out, where every ball hit against another player is appealed as a penalty, where any contact leads to the player going down because no matter how minimal the contact VAR will never over rule it if there was any contact.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 minutes ago
"I think there is a clear difference between what Lamela did and what Martial did."
I'd have been embarrassed to go down for either personally.
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For sure. I think most social footballers would never dream of doing this in front of mates, let alone millions of viewers who will see dozens of replays. Its just accepted at the elite level and actually pundits and ex-pros do very little to counter it....players being clever, or experienced, canny. No one calls them out, except may be Keane.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think there is a clear difference between what Lamela did and what Martial did.
Lamela put his forearm on Martials chest and shoved him, Martial stood firm and the force of the shove make his arm slide up the chest towards the neck. I think shoves happen all the time and do not automatically = red.
Martial was not only a slap but it was also to the face/head. This always = red.
Not saying its justified they are treated differently but just how VAR will have interpreted it.
In terms of force they were very similar so you can understand why people want a red for both, but actual force is not really an issue, otherwise Shaw would have gone. That was an assault!
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It was Carragher who was talking about the handball rule from the other week and he specifically said that common sense needs to be a part of how decisions are made.
I understand raising your hands is a red card and stuff like that, but look at the actual scenario, let's be honest it's a 6 of one half a dozen of the other moment. Is this where the rules need to be looked at with a bit more detail instead of being so linear because did the actions in general really warrant a red card for one and no punishment for the other?
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I think theyre trying to take interpretation out of the game. Ball to Hand = handball. Hand to Face = red card. Shove opponent = yellow.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think there is a clear difference between what Lamela did and what Martial did.
Lamela put his forearm on Martials chest and shoved him, Martial stood firm and the force of the shove make his arm slide up the chest towards the neck. I think shoves happen all the time and do not automatically = red.
Martial was not only a slap but it was also to the face/head. This always = red.
Not saying its justified they are treated differently but just how VAR will have interpreted it.
In terms of force they were very similar so you can understand why people want a red for both, but actual force is not really an issue, otherwise Shaw would have gone. That was an assault!
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It was Carragher who was talking about the handball rule from the other week and he specifically said that common sense needs to be a part of how decisions are made.
I understand raising your hands is a red card and stuff like that, but look at the actual scenario, let's be honest it's a 6 of one half a dozen of the other moment. Is this where the rules need to be looked at with a bit more detail instead of being so linear because did the actions in general really warrant a red card for one and no punishment for the other?
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I think theyre trying to take interpretation out of the game. Ball to Hand = handball. Hand to Face = red card. Shove opponent = yellow.
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Is that really the right decision though?
I actually agree with Carragher, football is a low scoring game all things considered. Penalties are a fantastic chance to score a goal, if the rule became as black and white as "ball to hand" then we'd be seeing 10 penalties a game. That's not what the game should be developed into.
VAR is there to support the referee's when it comes down to these interpretations because they are allowed other chances to look at it. It almost seems redundant having VAR in place but with black and white rules. It should just be a case of some interpretation, taking some common sense into the matter and making the decision, if it's wrong or needs reviewing, that's what VAR is for.
We brought in VAR and people have moaned about it's affect but I think it's done a decent job in all fairness at first, although it still requires some work. All things fudging about with rules though isn't making the game any better imo.
posted on 7/10/20
There needs to be a post game review of these incidents and punishments dished out accordingly. Unfortunatley they have the silly rule that if the ref has health with it i.e yellow card there can't be a post-game review. Thye don't want to undermine the ref, but bad officiating needs to be highlighted so they improve.
As for handball and VAR, maybe a compromise should be that you VAR can't be used in slowmo or passing it. Only realtime reviews. If you can't see that it is an obvious and deliberate handball in real time replays then there just isn't enough there. If you can see it in real time then the player can probably see it with enough time to move there hand away too, therefore deliberate. (obviously still needs an element of subjectivness with distance, angles, back to ball etc).
posted on 7/10/20
Back in my day which was not that long ago incidents like this would have received no more than a talking too with a firm understanding of what would happen if they persisted.
Football’s a contact sport for men with no need for handbags.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by (U22485)
posted 42 minutes ago
Back in my day which was not that long ago incidents like this would have received no more than a talking too with a firm understanding of what would happen if they persisted.
Football’s a contact sport for men with no need for handbags.
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True and this is how it should be but we have VAR now so everything is seen and everything is micro analysed and the refs are under pressure to apply the laws strictly.
I always felt VAR would go this way
posted on 7/10/20
It was embarrassing from Lamela...
Though the whole ‘scuffle’ debacle warranted no more than a yellow card for both players...
The Luke Shaw blatant, cynical foul was a definite red card...
I can only assume the ref just didn’t want to dish out a second red card...
I keep laughing at the Luke Shaw/ Harry Maguire Keystone Kops moment, for NDombele’s goal! 😂
posted on 7/10/20
It was embarrassing the way Lamela went down ,it was pure Mourino. Pushing and shoving happens in the box all the time,slapping an opponent in the mouth doesn't, for a very good reason,it'll get you red every time...as long as the ref sees it.
Reckon they've been told to make sure the ref sees it, just doesn't sit well with me.
posted on 7/10/20
I have no problem with how Lamela reacted.
Players go down with the slightest of touches all over the pitch, especially in the box.
If referees made correct decisions without exaggerations from players, players wouldn't need to fall over easily.
Stay on your feet in the box when fouled, a pen = 50/50. Go down and it's 90/10.