The contrast between Poch and Jose is quite interesting. I do not seek to do-down Poch in any way as his time at Spurs was just brilliant. I would have loved for him to win trophies here and its such a shame that his great achievements in elevating our club to a much higher level and status could not not validated with some silverware.
The question will always be asked whether he took us as far as he can, is he capable of winning things and this will only be answered if he takes another decent job. I remember thinking the same with Jol, another manager who i fondly remember. His managerial career never picked up again after Spurs so that question was answered.
Anyway, i digress....
What is a noticeable change from Poch is Jose's pragmatism. Poch, and many other managers are very set in their ways when it comes to certain aspects of the games and team selection and substitutions are 2 key areas.
Jose's selection at the weekend was in many ways a response to United strenghts, but also their weaknesses. Utds fast attackers warranted us playing our quicker defenders and we made 3 out of 4 changes here. But not only that, the faster full backs allowed us to better attack the space behind their wide players and full backs, recognising their weakness in this area. The inclusion of Lamela instead of Lucas gave that extra element of work rate on Aurier's side to assist where we had attacking FBs and also NDombele on the pitch, not known for his work rate.
What struck me more was the substitutions. I said at HT Utd will look to level up the numbers and probably target Lamela on a yellow. Jose subbed him at half time. Perfect pragmaitc response to the situation. Lucas came on, more pace to attack their FBs and vs 10 men, the ability to add more threat without the need for such defensive workrate.
Also, Son, recently back from injury but on a hattrick, subbed. He looked pissssed about it but again, perfect from Jose. Why risk him. Also to bring Alli on, give him some minutes, reward his hard work in training, drop him in to a situation where we are in control and he can gain more confidence.
Ideal!
All of these decisions made perfect sense and worked very well. None of them 'brain surgery' but how often do we / did we get frustrated with the same, almost formulaic approach by managers to lineups and subs. Same XI, same subs at the same time in the game.
Everything Jose touched vs Utd was gold and it will not always be like that. He has admitted himself that he takes these decisions sometimes and they fail. Because some decisions are unusual (subbing someone at or b4 HT) then you either look a hero or look stupid.
It is weird because it appears that Jose is thinking 'outside of the box' in some of his decisions but really he just sees something and responds to it in a way he thinks is sensible and practical. Pragmatism !
Pragmatic Jose
posted on 8/10/20
People think that you only want Jose out if you think he's a bad manager
I predicted us for top 4 before we even signed reguilón and bale but I was still saying i want him gone
posted on 8/10/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
People are entitled to change their mind, or have their mind changed by a player/managers performance, but its the extreme judgements and statements people make that open themselves up to abuse.
I think anyone who, at the start of this season wanted Jose out shows a rather large lack of comprehension of football. I think the amazon program really should bring it home to people that football really boils down to 2 things. Quality and confidence. When Jose took over Spurs our confidence was shot and he's tried to rebuild that (we now seem to have plenty, and this is built on a decent 19/20 re-start & some results).
Jose has been taksed with rebuilding us and that began last November, was seriously derailed by key injuries after 2 months and things only really looked like progressing during the restart. Despite all this our form was top 4. We scored more goals, more points and conceded fewer than pretty football sides like Chelsea and Leicester.
Jose has made mistakes and the team selection when we lost to Sheff Utd, and then the subs vs Everton when struggling to create anything were just wrong.
But people are too reactionary. Rebuilds take time. They require transfers. They require your best players on the pitch to develop and ingrain the discipline, tactics and style. So to call him finished is simply OTT in the extreme, especially when the rebuild has faced real obstacles, and even still we are top 4 form over his time here.
Ace has been called out on his comments on Jose's ability (nothing to do with his personality/the Jose circus etc) but rightly so IMO. If you are going to make such grand statements be prepared to eat a large portion of humble pie, and do it with a bit of grace
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Excellent post Devonshire. You are fast becoming my favourite poster.
Of course supporters should be allowed to change their minds, I do it often, and if you are prepared to say you got it wrong, then no real harm. It is what being a supporter is all about. What I do not like though is supporters that change their mind, then blame, then try to call everybody wrong except themselves.
posted on 8/10/20
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/10/20
I've completely flip-flopped on Jose.
I didn't want Poch gone, I didn't want Jose when he arrived. Mostly because he seemed to have lost his 'magic'.
He'd always had an ego - this is what made him a great. But this ego made him became more obsessed with protecting his reputation and pointing fingers elsewhere for any failings.
He'd developed a new reputation of negative football which reflected his negative demeanour.
These were my thoughts when he was appointed our manager and during his first year these fears were playing out:
- our football was dross
- he'd "fallen out" with Ndombele and Dele.
- there didn't seem to be any attacking structure
- we only seemed to be linked with big target men and workhorses
The fears had played out.
This week though, those fears have been massively eased:
- we're playing much quicker and more incisive football
- he's got Ndombele back playing
- we're scoring bags of goals with a clear and obvious tactic
- this high energy football has been supplemented with exciting signings in Bale and Reguilon.
There's been a flip-flop in opinion cos there's been a flip in what we're seeing. It could very well flip back but I'm hopeful that this last week will continue and there's finally some positivity about the club for the first time since the CL run.
posted on 8/10/20
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 16 minutes ago
I've completely flip-flopped on Jose.
I didn't want Poch gone, I didn't want Jose when he arrived. Mostly because he seemed to have lost his 'magic'.
He'd always had an ego - this is what made him a great. But this ego made him became more obsessed with protecting his reputation and pointing fingers elsewhere for any failings.
He'd developed a new reputation of negative football which reflected his negative demeanour.
These were my thoughts when he was appointed our manager and during his first year these fears were playing out:
- our football was dross
- he'd "fallen out" with Ndombele and Dele.
- there didn't seem to be any attacking structure
- we only seemed to be linked with big target men and workhorses
The fears had played out.
This week though, those fears have been massively eased:
- we're playing much quicker and more incisive football
- he's got Ndombele back playing
- we're scoring bags of goals with a clear and obvious tactic
- this high energy football has been supplemented with exciting signings in Bale and Reguilon.
There's been a flip-flop in opinion cos there's been a flip in what we're seeing. It could very well flip back but I'm hopeful that this last week will continue and there's finally some positivity about the club for the first time since the CL run.
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I like a good honest flip flopper.
posted on 8/10/20
what Flashy said
posted on 8/10/20
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/10/20
I also hold my hands up. I didn't want Jose as our manager and I was very disappointed when it was announced that he had been appointed.
I didn't enjoy his football last season and as many have said, he seemed to be going down what appeared to be his usual route of falling out with people left right and centre. In addition, my view about him was not just based on his time with us. It was also based on the toxicity that he appeared to generate at Man U and Chelsea.
Two things then happened to change my view:
1. The Amazon documentary
2. The improvement in results and performances and a very clear and shrewd recruitment strategy this "summer"
Jose may well still yet revert to type, but since he's been with us he appears to have learned the mistakes of his past and he seems really focussed on achieving big things with Spurs which will then....in true Jose style....metaphorically stick two finger up at all his critics!
Come on Jose! Come on you Spurs!!
posted on 8/10/20
We'll lose in an underwhelming display vs WHU and people will be in full flip flop reverse mode
posted on 8/10/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
We'll lose in an underwhelming display vs WHU and people will be in full flip flop reverse mode
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