Lampard still criticising the players

Comment on reddit:

"This is the thing. Lampard sounds like one of the dinosaur pundits you see on TV. "You gotta get close to people, put a tackle in", "where's the desire?", etc.

What they don't understand is that it goes hand in hand with being well set up and drilled, because every opponent at this level is nowadays. If you keep putting effort in but you're late to every second ball, your pressing doesn't work because your triggers are wrong, there are no effective pressing plans, you're instructed to go long but opponents always win it, you're supposed to track your man but they find ways to play through you anyway, you constantly find yourself chasing shadows because there's an overload in your area of the pitch and you can't possibly win,... That's how players' heads drop. And that's 100% what's happening with us. To suggest tactics don't matter - and even worse, to equate tactics with formations like Frank does, which is a ridiculous thing for a manager to say - just seems so out of touch. Which is crazy because Frank was a player only three years ago.

And again, it deflects blame from him, because he's responsible for tactics and the players are responsible for their application. It's getting boring."

To be fair to wahl there were times when sarri complained that the players weren't playing to his system

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier ... (U22545)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
Look regardless, are Lampard's comments fair? Why is he criticising the players publicly?
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What did you want him to say about them - that they're brilliant...?
Just ain't so
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Yes, that's what Guardiola and Klopp do every time their team doesn't win. They say their players did their best and they never undermine their players' efforts.

comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 minutes ago
You seem to base your judgements on things through a very narrow space Wahl. You may not have noticed but there's plenty of Chelsea fans on social media who want Lampard out now, who probably also wanted other managers out in similar circumstances. Likewise people sticking behind him who also stuck by Sarri last year/thought the abuse he got was a joke.

Yes many people will judge Lampard differently, which isn't an unreasonable position for a variety of reasons BTW, but many more don't! This is like CMF being convinced every Chelsea fan hates CHO because it suits his agenda. Fanbases can't be pigeon holed into these neat little packages of representing A, reject B - it's much more complex than that.
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OK but naturally I am talking about the (quite large proportion) of Chelsea fans that still back Lampard who wouldn't back him if he hadn't scored 200+ goals for Chelsea, which is irrelevant to his performance as manager (not it is not reasonable to judge Lampard differently, is it Sarri's fault that he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea before becoming Chelsea manager? Was it benitez' fault he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea?). Lampard the (former) player and Lampard the manager are two distinct separate things. It's not fair on some of our former managers who were sometimes treated horribly by our unreasonable playing favourites fans to not recognise this.Why should I judge Lampard less harshly than I judged Sarri because Lampard scored 200 goals for Chelsea? It has nothing to do with how good a manager Lampard is.

comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier ... (U22545)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier ... (U22545)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
Look regardless, are Lampard's comments fair? Why is he criticising the players publicly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did you want him to say about them - that they're brilliant...?
Just ain't so
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that's what Guardiola and Klopp do every time their team doesn't win. They say their players did their best and they never undermine their players' efforts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I've ever heard Pep or klopp say their players did their best

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier ... (U22545)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier ... (U22545)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
Look regardless, are Lampard's comments fair? Why is he criticising the players publicly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did you want him to say about them - that they're brilliant...?
Just ain't so
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that's what Guardiola and Klopp do every time their team doesn't win. They say their players did their best and they never undermine their players' efforts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I've ever heard Pep or klopp say their players did their best
----------------------------------------------------------------------
doesn't even particularly reflect well on them if they've sent them out with a plan they should be executing it

comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier league champions (U22545)
posted 29 minutes ago

comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 minutes ago
You seem to base your judgements on things through a very narrow space Wahl. You may not have noticed but there's plenty of Chelsea fans on social media who want Lampard out now, who probably also wanted other managers out in similar circumstances. Likewise people sticking behind him who also stuck by Sarri last year/thought the abuse he got was a joke.

Yes many people will judge Lampard differently, which isn't an unreasonable position for a variety of reasons BTW, but many more don't! This is like CMF being convinced every Chelsea fan hates CHO because it suits his agenda. Fanbases can't be pigeon holed into these neat little packages of representing A, reject B - it's much more complex than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK but naturally I am talking about the (quite large proportion) of Chelsea fans that still back Lampard who wouldn't back him if he hadn't scored 200+ goals for Chelsea, which is irrelevant to his performance as manager (not it is not reasonable to judge Lampard differently, is it Sarri's fault that he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea before becoming Chelsea manager? Was it benitez' fault he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea?). Lampard the (former) player and Lampard the manager are two distinct separate things. It's not fair on some of our former managers who were sometimes treated horribly by our unreasonable playing favourites fans to not recognise this.Why should I judge Lampard less harshly than I judged Sarri because Lampard scored 200 goals for Chelsea? It has nothing to do with how good a manager Lampard is.
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That's not the only reason why - fact he was brave enough to give youth a chance is a big tick, his inexperience once in the job buys him favor, he exceeded expectations last year gives him credit in the bank, the bizarre nature of the league this year buys him time, etc... but even if being a club legend was the only reason it is sufficient to judge him differently.

It doesn't justify the abuse other guys got, I agree with that, but it does give him more leeway to screw up. Huge numbers of fans were behind Mourinho in 15/16 for the same reason, he'd bought himself so much favor with the fans he could get away with being 17th at the time. Saying great players start from zero as managers is very clinical thinking but it's just not realistic in the real world, emotions don't work like that.

comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier league champions (U22545)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yes Sarri absolutely did! And Chelsea fans abused him for "not being a Chelsea man"

You're furrrking disgraces and I'm embarrassed by the double standards this fanbase has when it comes to managers. You either love them or hate them for completely bulllshiiit reasons either way usually.
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Reason sarri was disliked was due to his preference of certain players and tactics, nothing to do with him calling out players. If you were a CFC fan you’d know that lol.

comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht - Chelsea 5th December 2020 premier league champions (U22545)
posted 29 minutes ago

comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 minutes ago
You seem to base your judgements on things through a very narrow space Wahl. You may not have noticed but there's plenty of Chelsea fans on social media who want Lampard out now, who probably also wanted other managers out in similar circumstances. Likewise people sticking behind him who also stuck by Sarri last year/thought the abuse he got was a joke.

Yes many people will judge Lampard differently, which isn't an unreasonable position for a variety of reasons BTW, but many more don't! This is like CMF being convinced every Chelsea fan hates CHO because it suits his agenda. Fanbases can't be pigeon holed into these neat little packages of representing A, reject B - it's much more complex than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK but naturally I am talking about the (quite large proportion) of Chelsea fans that still back Lampard who wouldn't back him if he hadn't scored 200+ goals for Chelsea, which is irrelevant to his performance as manager (not it is not reasonable to judge Lampard differently, is it Sarri's fault that he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea before becoming Chelsea manager? Was it benitez' fault he didn't score 200 goals for Chelsea?). Lampard the (former) player and Lampard the manager are two distinct separate things. It's not fair on some of our former managers who were sometimes treated horribly by our unreasonable playing favourites fans to not recognise this.Why should I judge Lampard less harshly than I judged Sarri because Lampard scored 200 goals for Chelsea? It has nothing to do with how good a manager Lampard is.
----------------------------------------------------
That's not the only reason why - fact he was brave enough to give youth a chance is a big tick, his inexperience once in the job buys him favor, he exceeded expectations last year gives him credit in the bank, the bizarre nature of the league this year buys him time, etc... but even if being a club legend was the only reason it is sufficient to judge him differently.

It doesn't justify the abuse other guys got, I agree with that, but it does give him more leeway to screw up. Huge numbers of fans were behind Mourinho in 15/16 for the same reason, he'd bought himself so much favor with the fans he could get away with being 17th at the time. Saying great players start from zero as managers is very clinical thinking but it's just not realistic in the real world, emotions don't work like that.
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I think we are on the same page largely. One thing I do want to say though is that mourinho winning premier leagues for us as a manager is different to Lampard being a club legend as a player. Had Lampard won multiple pl titles for us as a manager (or even just any trophies) I would be more likely to keep faith in him. You have to separate completely manager career and playing career. They’re two distinct things. Neither has any effect on the other. We cannot judge Lampard as a manager while we think of what he did as a player and we cannot equally judge Lampard as a player while thinking about how badly he is doing currently as a manager.

It's finally over. Thank goodness