Shocking Thought

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 9 minutes ago
For my money he's inherited a young potentially brilliant squad... Is it good enough to win the champions League... Potentially it is, - will it be this term - unlikely as I don't see us getting past Athletico

If we get to the champions League tie and we haven't lost a game under him, the expectation may be higher.

We know he's volatile, so I couldn't say if he's even going to be with us this time next year
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So on that sane basis, you are confirming that RDM did not inherit a Champions League winning squad. He in herited a squad with the potential to win the CL, just like Tuchel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team that won the CL... Or a champions League winning team... Call it what you will... Call it semantics if you want
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You inherit at the time it is given to you.,not what it becomes in the future. Its not semantics, its the true meaning of the word.

You have just chosen to apply it incorrectly when talking about RDM because it suits your view of him, but correctly when talking about Tuchel.



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He inherited the team in march... The team won the champions League in May, I'm pretty clear about all of that
he could just as easily have inherited a team that lost the champions League final... But he didn't

----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team 3 1 down in the first leg of the last 16 in the CL versus Tuchel who has inherited a team in the last 16 of the CL.

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't actually think dimatteo did a whole lot with our team in order to win those two cups... The team was there in place already... It was easily good enough to win the FA cup,
And as I explained above we probably weren't even second favourites to win the champions League let alone favourites in that final - but we did it, and he inherited the team as manager.

Did he make any sound investments in order to realise any potential on that inheritance... Probably not... Frankly he got lucky.... Call it a lottery win if you want

He was out of a job months later

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You can have that view of RDM and that's fine, but I think it's pretty unfsir to dismiss him without anyway of knowing what his input was. I don't see why he is singles out that way versus other trophy winning managers.

I Tuchel wins a trophy this season will you be giving him credit? Or dismissing his input?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be giving Frank credit for getting us into the champions League in the first place... But winning this is an unlikely scenario at best...even given 2012

As regards the FA cup... It's been shown that many teams of varying quality can win this and have done over past seasons...and with our side we can/could win this even possibly under Lamps

I'll certainly be giving Tushy credit if he gets into the champions League by virtue of top 4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double standards surely.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In march 2012 we must have been at the the quarter finals or semi-final stage of the champions League... So dimatteo has overseen a handful of champions League games probably
We were probably at the same stage in the FA cup

Tushy has taken over the team in some slight league disarray, in 10th place, so if by some chance he gets us to top 4 I will be giving him credit for that yeah

difference is even with our predilection for sacking managers on the spot it is unlikely but Tushy will be sacked if he doesn't win the champions League and the FA cup

Di Matteo wasn't up to the job and got sacked despite winning two cups





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No, we were 3 1 down, first leg, last 16.

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 9 minutes ago
For my money he's inherited a young potentially brilliant squad... Is it good enough to win the champions League... Potentially it is, - will it be this term - unlikely as I don't see us getting past Athletico

If we get to the champions League tie and we haven't lost a game under him, the expectation may be higher.

We know he's volatile, so I couldn't say if he's even going to be with us this time next year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So on that sane basis, you are confirming that RDM did not inherit a Champions League winning squad. He in herited a squad with the potential to win the CL, just like Tuchel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team that won the CL... Or a champions League winning team... Call it what you will... Call it semantics if you want
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You inherit at the time it is given to you.,not what it becomes in the future. Its not semantics, its the true meaning of the word.

You have just chosen to apply it incorrectly when talking about RDM because it suits your view of him, but correctly when talking about Tuchel.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited the team in march... The team won the champions League in May, I'm pretty clear about all of that
he could just as easily have inherited a team that lost the champions League final... But he didn't

----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team 3 1 down in the first leg of the last 16 in the CL versus Tuchel who has inherited a team in the last 16 of the CL.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you concede that an inheritance has occurred then...

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't actually think dimatteo did a whole lot with our team in order to win those two cups... The team was there in place already... It was easily good enough to win the FA cup,
And as I explained above we probably weren't even second favourites to win the champions League let alone favourites in that final - but we did it, and he inherited the team as manager.

Did he make any sound investments in order to realise any potential on that inheritance... Probably not... Frankly he got lucky.... Call it a lottery win if you want

He was out of a job months later

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can have that view of RDM and that's fine, but I think it's pretty unfsir to dismiss him without anyway of knowing what his input was. I don't see why he is singles out that way versus other trophy winning managers.

I Tuchel wins a trophy this season will you be giving him credit? Or dismissing his input?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be giving Frank credit for getting us into the champions League in the first place... But winning this is an unlikely scenario at best...even given 2012

As regards the FA cup... It's been shown that many teams of varying quality can win this and have done over past seasons...and with our side we can/could win this even possibly under Lamps

I'll certainly be giving Tushy credit if he gets into the champions League by virtue of top 4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double standards surely.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In march 2012 we must have been at the the quarter finals or semi-final stage of the champions League... So dimatteo has overseen a handful of champions League games probably
We were probably at the same stage in the FA cup

Tushy has taken over the team in some slight league disarray, in 10th place, so if by some chance he gets us to top 4 I will be giving him credit for that yeah

difference is even with our predilection for sacking managers on the spot it is unlikely but Tushy will be sacked if he doesn't win the champions League and the FA cup

Di Matteo wasn't up to the job and got sacked despite winning two cups





----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, we were 3 1 down, first leg, last 16.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok fair enough...so he oversaw probs five games... Didn't keep him his job did it

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't actually think dimatteo did a whole lot with our team in order to win those two cups... The team was there in place already... It was easily good enough to win the FA cup,
And as I explained above we probably weren't even second favourites to win the champions League let alone favourites in that final - but we did it, and he inherited the team as manager.

Did he make any sound investments in order to realise any potential on that inheritance... Probably not... Frankly he got lucky.... Call it a lottery win if you want

He was out of a job months later

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can have that view of RDM and that's fine, but I think it's pretty unfsir to dismiss him without anyway of knowing what his input was. I don't see why he is singles out that way versus other trophy winning managers.

I Tuchel wins a trophy this season will you be giving him credit? Or dismissing his input?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be giving Frank credit for getting us into the champions League in the first place... But winning this is an unlikely scenario at best...even given 2012

As regards the FA cup... It's been shown that many teams of varying quality can win this and have done over past seasons...and with our side we can/could win this even possibly under Lamps

I'll certainly be giving Tushy credit if he gets into the champions League by virtue of top 4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double standards surely.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In march 2012 we must have been at the the quarter finals or semi-final stage of the champions League... So dimatteo has overseen a handful of champions League games probably
We were probably at the same stage in the FA cup

Tushy has taken over the team in some slight league disarray, in 10th place, so if by some chance he gets us to top 4 I will be giving him credit for that yeah

difference is even with our predilection for sacking managers on the spot it is unlikely but Tushy will be sacked if he doesn't win the champions League and the FA cup

Di Matteo wasn't up to the job and got sacked despite winning two cups





----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, we were 3 1 down, first leg, last 16.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok fair enough...so he oversaw probs five games... Didn't keep him his job did it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is straw man point not related to the fact that did not inherit a CL winning squad.

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 9 minutes ago
For my money he's inherited a young potentially brilliant squad... Is it good enough to win the champions League... Potentially it is, - will it be this term - unlikely as I don't see us getting past Athletico

If we get to the champions League tie and we haven't lost a game under him, the expectation may be higher.

We know he's volatile, so I couldn't say if he's even going to be with us this time next year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So on that sane basis, you are confirming that RDM did not inherit a Champions League winning squad. He in herited a squad with the potential to win the CL, just like Tuchel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team that won the CL... Or a champions League winning team... Call it what you will... Call it semantics if you want
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You inherit at the time it is given to you.,not what it becomes in the future. Its not semantics, its the true meaning of the word.

You have just chosen to apply it incorrectly when talking about RDM because it suits your view of him, but correctly when talking about Tuchel.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited the team in march... The team won the champions League in May, I'm pretty clear about all of that
he could just as easily have inherited a team that lost the champions League final... But he didn't

----------------------------------------------------------------------
He inherited a team 3 1 down in the first leg of the last 16 in the CL versus Tuchel who has inherited a team in the last 16 of the CL.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you concede that an inheritance has occurred then...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, but not a CL winning squad. That was just a sweeping statement by you because you don't rate him.

I'll remind you how this difference of opinion started...

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 day ago

comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
D Matteo basically inherited a CL winning side & then quite quickly wasn't up to it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No way he inherited a CL winning team. That was one of the weakest CL squads we had had in the previous 8 years of competition.

My statement was perfectly true, and you argued at the time that it wasn't...

Note...At no time did I say he inherited the side that were the best we'd ever had, - or were indeed expected to win the champions League

But, I'd also argue that we've had significantly weaker teams in it, in the last 4-5 years we've qualified, even when we had Hazard.

But, I'd also argue that we've had significantly weaker teams in it, in the last 4-5 years we've qualified, even when we had Hazard.

"Significantly" is a strong word... In retrospect, maybe as weak... And barring hazard lacking in any genuine match winners like we had in 2012

Sherriff you said RDM inherited a CL winning squad. He didn't, its factually incorrect to say so, just as it would be incorrect to say that Tuchel has inherited a champions league winning squad.

You can only inherit the status of the squad at the time you take over.

That's the plain facts. If you don't agree with that then we'll done and good luck.

Where does it say there's a time-lapse on inheriting a squad... From that point of view your argument holds no more water than mine, especially as that passage of time was literally two months... or a handful of games, which is no time at all in football.

If we hadn't won the champions League until let's say 2014 with Di Matteo still in charge then you'd have a point, as you would expect the team to have changed quite significantly.