How could it be allowed to happen that United, having dominated the PL for almost 20 years, with one manager in charge, creating a stability and ethos that lasted for longer than a footballer’s playing career, and that manager (Ferguson) overseeing the appointment of his successor, which hinted at a boot room philosophy that served Liverpool so well throughout the 70s and 80s...
How could it happen that since Ferguson retired, one of the biggest clubs in the world could simply get it so wrong?
What really is going on at United? Something isn’t right. Upto and including Ferguson, the club had 17 managerial appointments since 1900 (Walter Crickmer and Matt Busby having two separate tenures as manager). An average tenure of over 6 years per manager. Since Ferguson, the club has had 4 permanent managers in just under 8 years - as things stand an average of 2 years per manager.
That stat is even more damning when you consider that Ferguson himself lasted for 26 years. One manager over a period of 26 years. And since then a manger change effectively every other year.
Why has it gone so wrong post Ferguson when compared to what the club achieved under Ferguson? No league title. No Champions League wins. Even failing to qualify for the CL on occasion. This is a club that is built on success, more so since the 90s, and endured a period in the 90s and 2000’s that financially cemented its place at the forefront of clubs in world football.
So what is the reason? And who is to blame?
Since Ferguson...
posted on 21/3/21
whether or not you think Ole is the right man, he got 3rd last year and 3 semi finals.
this year he is on course to get second, 1 semi final and 2 quarter finals (potentially more in EL)
while I would love us to be making a real run at the pl title we aren't there yet, but where we were when Ole started to where we are today is night and day.
we have quality young players throughout the team, a few older quality players in pogo and bruno and only a few parts away from having a very good team that could be the backbone for a very competitive side for a number of years.
posted on 21/3/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I still think ‘could’ was unlikely though. Could have done better but I think they all had issues that makes me think they would not have successed, I’d probably say Moyes had the best chance looking back. I think both LVG and Jose are too volatile and stubborn for today’s game.
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So would I. The point was more around poor appointments aside, if there’s then the double whammy of not being set up to succeed either then it’s never got any chance of working.
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It’s what makes the managerial appointments so damaging.
If the club was set up to build squads that the finances suggest they could, we wouldn’t have been in this situation.
We’d also be able to replace managers more easily.
posted on 21/3/21
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I still think ‘could’ was unlikely though. Could have done better but I think they all had issues that makes me think they would not have successed, I’d probably say Moyes had the best chance looking back. I think both LVG and Jose are too volatile and stubborn for today’s game.
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So would I. The point was more around poor appointments aside, if there’s then the double whammy of not being set up to succeed either then it’s never got any chance of working.
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It’s what makes the managerial appointments so damaging.
If the club was set up to build squads that the finances suggest they could, we wouldn’t have been in this situation.
We’d also be able to replace managers more easily.
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Definitely.
posted on 21/3/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
A series of poor managerial appointments essentially, not just the coaches themselves but that coupled with what and how they deliver.
If you hire Moyes as a successor to Ferguson, he’s got to be allowed more than just one season. It wasn’t as if it was going to be irreparable had they given him three seasons to see if he developed into the role.
With Van Gaal, he’s always going to focus initially on the foundations. If you’re going to implement his style of football, again it takes time to get the possession and shape embedded first. Again, he’s got to be allowed more time and if not, at least hire someone that will build on that foundation rather than go in a completely different direction.
Mourinho, if you’re going to hire him then you’ve got to give him the control needed as it only ever works if he’s got a squad with the right personality for him.
All of them could have been successful. Ultimately, none of them did a particularly good job, but they were all hamstrung in being able to. The end result is a squad that needs a lot of balance to it as players have been bought under a mix of progressing different philosophies.
It’s still a very good squad of players though. It needs a very good coach to bring out the very best with it now though, either that or a few more bits of major surgery.
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100% this
posted on 21/3/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Rooney-the-GOAT (U4135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
We lost the greatest manager of all time, lost David Gill too and put our faith in Ed Woodward. That's what happened
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I blame fans like you who accept mediocrity and support an incompetent manager.
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Ah yes. The real decision makers that have power over the owners. You are a special kind of special.
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Fans of football clubs have more power than you think.
It's a lie they cannot be responsible for mediocrity.
posted on 21/3/21
comment by Dwight K Schrute (U22590)
posted 51 minutes ago
a few older quality players in pogo ----------------------------------------
well he does get a lot of stick
posted on 21/3/21
comment by rosso - championing freedom of speech and free... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
A series of poor managerial appointments essentially, not just the coaches themselves but that coupled with what and how they deliver.
If you hire Moyes as a successor to Ferguson, he’s got to be allowed more than just one season. It wasn’t as if it was going to be irreparable had they given him three seasons to see if he developed into the role.
With Van Gaal, he’s always going to focus initially on the foundations. If you’re going to implement his style of football, again it takes time to get the possession and shape embedded first. Again, he’s got to be allowed more time and if not, at least hire someone that will build on that foundation rather than go in a completely different direction.
Mourinho, if you’re going to hire him then you’ve got to give him the control needed as it only ever works if he’s got a squad with the right personality for him.
All of them could have been successful. Ultimately, none of them did a particularly good job, but they were all hamstrung in being able to. The end result is a squad that needs a lot of balance to it as players have been bought under a mix of progressing different philosophies.
It’s still a very good squad of players though. It needs a very good coach to bring out the very best with it now though, either that or a few more bits of major surgery.
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100% this
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It needs a very good coach and Ole, sadly, is not the coach to do it.
posted on 21/3/21
comment by Anne Ziety (U22412)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Rooney-the-GOAT (U4135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
We lost the greatest manager of all time, lost David Gill too and put our faith in Ed Woodward. That's what happened
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I blame fans like you who accept mediocrity and support an incompetent manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes. The real decision makers that have power over the owners. You are a special kind of special.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fans of football clubs have more power than you think.
It's a lie they cannot be responsible for mediocrity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly the owners aren't going to listen to the fans. Same as Mike Ashley at Newcastle. Secondly, even if they were to listen, they'd after to agree that currently being the 2nd best team in the county constitutes mediocrity. Which they won't.
posted on 22/3/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by Anne Ziety (U22412)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Rooney-the-GOAT (U4135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
We lost the greatest manager of all time, lost David Gill too and put our faith in Ed Woodward. That's what happened
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I blame fans like you who accept mediocrity and support an incompetent manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes. The real decision makers that have power over the owners. You are a special kind of special.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fans of football clubs have more power than you think.
It's a lie they cannot be responsible for mediocrity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly the owners aren't going to listen to the fans. Same as Mike Ashley at Newcastle. Secondly, even if they were to listen, they'd after to agree that currently being the 2nd best team in the county constitutes mediocrity. Which they won't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When the club is viewed solely (or even primarily) from a financial perspective, finishing in the top four and making adequate progress in Europe (group stages of the CL followed by a decent EL campaign is very lucrative indeed) will be viewed as a very long way from mediocre.
The club’s value has increased hugely since the Glazers took over, its revenue has absolutely soared, and the family have been able to pay themselves tens of millions in dividends and bonuses every year. All on next to zero initial investment.
They’ve maintained that through approaching a decade without a major trophy win.
If you told them the club’s performance had been mediocre since SAF retired, they’d laugh in your face.
posted on 22/3/21
Put it this way, if the owners could cut a deal with the devil that promised a top four finish (without a title win) and a strong CL/EL run (without a CL win) for ten consecutive seasons provided that Solskjaer remained in charge, they’d offer him a ten year contract.
They don’t give a flying fack what the fans think, and that’s their prerogative.