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The Double Pivot

Two reasons I have heard for our use of two deep midfielders are:

1) we don't have a complete defensive midfielder who can shield the defense properly as well as pass and dictate the tempo

2) we need require two defensive midfielders in order to protect a weak back four

Which do you think is the main reason for our continued use of this tactic?

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he

I believe we’ve already broken the PL record for come-from-behind wins in a single season.
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we're the ron jeremys of the PL

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he

I believe we’ve already broken the PL record for come-from-behind wins in a single season.
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we're the ron jeremys of the PL
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I've heard he can get past a semi though...

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

our biggest issue stems from one thing and one thing only..... tempo.

we are so slow playing from the back, making countless sideway passes that allow the opposition to get back into position.

thats a big reason why our passing also looks so sloppy at times, and thats because we are having to play more astute passes into areas that are occupied by opposition players, meaning more are cut out.

instead of lindelof playing a 10 yard pass to maguire, who then turns and plays a 10 yard pass to shaw, cut out the fecking middle man and build quicker

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)

Strikes me the diagnosis here is 'need better players' rather than 'need to ditch the double pivot'.
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We need better players as well as being able to switch things tactically when not working or against certain teams. No need to completely ditch the double pivot, just need to be more flexible.
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I think we do now see a bunch of different tactical options switched on and off, as expected to be required or useful.

There’s obviously the difference in Pogba’s role when he’s played in the double pivot, there’s how we use one of the CMs (usually Matic - Ole I think trusts him more in this role) to drop into a back three when we want to push the FBs up and go 3-3-4 in possession, there’s the use of Fred when Maguire is encouraged to carry the ball into the left half-space, there’s their use in the mid-block as I’ve mentioned in my reply to melts above rather than having them drop off when we’re playing on the counter or otherwise using a containing low block.
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Still some work to be done though.

Btw, what do you think will be required for us to defend better as a unit?
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We could do as much as we wanted.

I wouldn’t want to see Bruno and the CF given defensive responsibilities, but IMO our wide forwards should be doing more and a better job of covering our FBs and helping our CMs out.

Very often we have one of our CMs pulled into a wide area which should be being covered by a winger and as a result either space emerging to exploit on the edge of the box or an easier switch on as the other CM (correctly) shifts across with his partner.

Switches of play from deeper areas we are also very susceptible to due to how narrow our FBs start (narrow is fine - everyone does that nowadays - but we rely too much on the pace of our FBs to get out to their wingers from too narrow starting positions) and also casual tracking by opposite flank wingers.

There’s also the coordination of the situational press - which, to be fair, is very difficult to coordinate and we *are* better at running than we were - and the mid block we often drop into when the press is off.

When both of those work, they’re a dream. When they don’t, the situational press is just a waste of energy which doesn’t help us our forwards positionally or in terms of energy management with their defensive responsibilities, and the mid block leaves spaces in behind the midfield line when our players over-commit.

They’re both risky strategies designed to help us win the ball higher up the pitch and create opportunities quickly, and I’m all for them. But we need to be better at them.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
our biggest issue stems from one thing and one thing only..... tempo.

we are so slow playing from the back, making countless sideway passes that allow the opposition to get back into position.

thats a big reason why our passing also looks so sloppy at times, and thats because we are having to play more astute passes into areas that are occupied by opposition players, meaning more are cut out.

instead of lindelof playing a 10 yard pass to maguire, who then turns and plays a 10 yard pass to shaw, cut out the fecking middle man and build quicker
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Part of that is tactical, particularly when we’re playing against mid to high blocks. The idea is to draw the opposition’s forwards and midfield up the pitch so that we can either hit our forwards in space in behind the opposition’s midfield line, or create overloading situations when we’ve found an opportunity to play through the press.

It obviously does absolutely nothing against disciplined low to middle blocks which don’t allow their players to be drawn out to try to run the ball down though, and, of course, it does mean that sometimes you’re going to give the ball away in dangerous areas.

comment by N2 (U22280)

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)

I wouldn’t want to see Bruno and the CF given defensive responsibilities, but IMO our wide forwards should be doing more and a better job of covering our FBs and helping our CMs out.
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Could this be because we often play with strikers in the wide positions rather than actual wingers who are used to tracking back? James for instance does the defensive side better.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

It's very hard to find the one midfielder who can fulfill both in that role. The only player in the PL I can think of that does both is Fabinho. That is, to an effective, high level anyway.

Declan Rice looks likely to be the next best player out of the lot who can do that. He's good with the ball.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)

I wouldn’t want to see Bruno and the CF given defensive responsibilities, but IMO our wide forwards should be doing more and a better job of covering our FBs and helping our CMs out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be because we often play with strikers in the wide positions rather than actual wingers who are used to tracking back? James for instance does the defensive side better.
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He has to, he’s facking shiiiit going forward. So there’s no reward in leaving him without much defensive responsibilities.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)

I wouldn’t want to see Bruno and the CF given defensive responsibilities, but IMO our wide forwards should be doing more and a better job of covering our FBs and helping our CMs out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be because we often play with strikers in the wide positions rather than actual wingers who are used to tracking back? James for instance does the defensive side better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has to, he’s facking shiiiit going forward. So there’s no reward in leaving him without much defensive responsibilities.
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posted 1 week, 5 days ago

to answer the OP: because Ole has no clue

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