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Article Rating 2.93 Stars

Top Four or League Cup?

Straight forward question, what would you prefer if you can only have one THIS season? To finish in the top four (third or fourth) or win the League Cup?

This isn’t a debate about whether we can do both, or whether the FAC or Europa would have done instead, or what you’d be happy with next season - it’s about the here and now, this season.

5 star - Top four
1 star - League Cup

Vote.

My vote is Top four.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

Jeeesus!


Some folks have a lot to say...on not much!

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 5 minutes ago
Jeeesus!


Some folks have a lot to say...on not much!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your contribution

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 12 seconds ago
I'm not saying it guarantees anything. You're still ignoring our actual situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure I am.

You’ve said losing finals is starting to define us as a club. We’ve been to two finals recently - 2015 and 2019. Even in 2015 I’m not sure how many players are still here.

We also have a new manager - there isn’t much left from 2015, let alone our previous final in 2009, so I don’t see weak mentality as defining anything. I don’t think we were good enough in 2015 and 2019, but COULD have been from 2019 onwards with the right investment.

And between 2015 and 2019 we have an Asian games winner and a World Cup winner - so there is clearly some strong mentality in the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it does. Everyone knows we bottle the big games. Surely you've heard the Spursy tag? Dr Tottenham? Lads, it's Spurs? Maybe not just finals, but big games in general we bottle it. It's pretty much a fact at this point.

So apart from 2015 and 19, we were good enough, right? The investment was there, we had a top coach, everything, but we still lost every big cup game. Looking at the Europa league exit I can tell you we most certainly don't have a strong mentality of winners.

Just because they've done it with their countries means little when they're playing for Spurs, obviously. If your logic held true we would've won those big games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Between 2015-2019 we were progressing. I think the “team” peaked earlier than planned (I think the aim was to peak a few years into the new stadium), and that it needed additional investment at a crucial time (2018) to push on - a natural step as teams tend to be cyclical and last for about three years (as I said before).

That’s been ripped up by a lack of investment and left field management choice - and top four is crucial.

And we didn’t lose every big cup game - unless your definition is “finals” which is then just two, with the first being right at the beginning of Poch’s era.

This years Europa league loss doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I’m saying we need top four to push on, and our previous “failure” was not to do with a weak mentality. Winning the LC won’t suddenly give the team a strong mentality if it was missing, but I believe will add nothing to the development of the team over the next few years, as it’s not going to keep players or attract new ones (IMHO)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I feel like we're getting bogged down in details. Fact is every cup game is important, we have no right to be arrogant enough to disregard any of them. And by the fact we haven't won any you can say we lost all of the important cup games.

The Europa defeat doesn't prove anything, no, but it serves to illustrate my point. The squad is good enough to win those games. They should be able to put away Wolfsburger with a 2-0 aggregate advantage without a manager. Sooner our later you have to ask questions of the players, and it's no use calling for more investment from Levy because we lost a game like that.

IMHO it's a bit of a wash at this point. If we finish 5th and win a cup or get top four, I don't think will make a huge difference to who we sign. Any manager would make the case that we'll get the CL/ win something next season given how close we were to either. It would, however, give us something to celebrate and Kane something to show his grandkids instead of a stat list.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 12 seconds ago
I'm not saying it guarantees anything. You're still ignoring our actual situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure I am.

You’ve said losing finals is starting to define us as a club. We’ve been to two finals recently - 2015 and 2019. Even in 2015 I’m not sure how many players are still here.

We also have a new manager - there isn’t much left from 2015, let alone our previous final in 2009, so I don’t see weak mentality as defining anything. I don’t think we were good enough in 2015 and 2019, but COULD have been from 2019 onwards with the right investment.

And between 2015 and 2019 we have an Asian games winner and a World Cup winner - so there is clearly some strong mentality in the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it does. Everyone knows we bottle the big games. Surely you've heard the Spursy tag? Dr Tottenham? Lads, it's Spurs? Maybe not just finals, but big games in general we bottle it. It's pretty much a fact at this point.

So apart from 2015 and 19, we were good enough, right? The investment was there, we had a top coach, everything, but we still lost every big cup game. Looking at the Europa league exit I can tell you we most certainly don't have a strong mentality of winners.

Just because they've done it with their countries means little when they're playing for Spurs, obviously. If your logic held true we would've won those big games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Between 2015-2019 we were progressing. I think the “team” peaked earlier than planned (I think the aim was to peak a few years into the new stadium), and that it needed additional investment at a crucial time (2018) to push on - a natural step as teams tend to be cyclical and last for about three years (as I said before).

That’s been ripped up by a lack of investment and left field management choice - and top four is crucial.

And we didn’t lose every big cup game - unless your definition is “finals” which is then just two, with the first being right at the beginning of Poch’s era.

This years Europa league loss doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I’m saying we need top four to push on, and our previous “failure” was not to do with a weak mentality. Winning the LC won’t suddenly give the team a strong mentality if it was missing, but I believe will add nothing to the development of the team over the next few years, as it’s not going to keep players or attract new ones (IMHO)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I feel like we're getting bogged down in details. Fact is every cup game is important, we have no right to be arrogant enough to disregard any of them. And by the fact we haven't won any you can say we lost all of the important cup games.

The Europa defeat doesn't prove anything, no, but it serves to illustrate my point. The squad is good enough to win those games. They should be able to put away Wolfsburger with a 2-0 aggregate advantage without a manager. Sooner our later you have to ask questions of the players, and it's no use calling for more investment from Levy because we lost a game like that.

IMHO it's a bit of a wash at this point. If we finish 5th and win a cup or get top four, I don't think will make a huge difference to who we sign. Any manager would make the case that we'll get the CL/ win something next season given how close we were to either. It would, however, give us something to celebrate and Kane something to show his grandkids instead of a stat list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. We don’t yet know where Kane’s head is at. Original question was top four OR LC - obviously I hope it’s both.

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 12 seconds ago
I'm not saying it guarantees anything. You're still ignoring our actual situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure I am.

You’ve said losing finals is starting to define us as a club. We’ve been to two finals recently - 2015 and 2019. Even in 2015 I’m not sure how many players are still here.

We also have a new manager - there isn’t much left from 2015, let alone our previous final in 2009, so I don’t see weak mentality as defining anything. I don’t think we were good enough in 2015 and 2019, but COULD have been from 2019 onwards with the right investment.

And between 2015 and 2019 we have an Asian games winner and a World Cup winner - so there is clearly some strong mentality in the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it does. Everyone knows we bottle the big games. Surely you've heard the Spursy tag? Dr Tottenham? Lads, it's Spurs? Maybe not just finals, but big games in general we bottle it. It's pretty much a fact at this point.

So apart from 2015 and 19, we were good enough, right? The investment was there, we had a top coach, everything, but we still lost every big cup game. Looking at the Europa league exit I can tell you we most certainly don't have a strong mentality of winners.

Just because they've done it with their countries means little when they're playing for Spurs, obviously. If your logic held true we would've won those big games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Between 2015-2019 we were progressing. I think the “team” peaked earlier than planned (I think the aim was to peak a few years into the new stadium), and that it needed additional investment at a crucial time (2018) to push on - a natural step as teams tend to be cyclical and last for about three years (as I said before).

That’s been ripped up by a lack of investment and left field management choice - and top four is crucial.

And we didn’t lose every big cup game - unless your definition is “finals” which is then just two, with the first being right at the beginning of Poch’s era.

This years Europa league loss doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I’m saying we need top four to push on, and our previous “failure” was not to do with a weak mentality. Winning the LC won’t suddenly give the team a strong mentality if it was missing, but I believe will add nothing to the development of the team over the next few years, as it’s not going to keep players or attract new ones (IMHO)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I feel like we're getting bogged down in details. Fact is every cup game is important, we have no right to be arrogant enough to disregard any of them. And by the fact we haven't won any you can say we lost all of the important cup games.

The Europa defeat doesn't prove anything, no, but it serves to illustrate my point. The squad is good enough to win those games. They should be able to put away Wolfsburger with a 2-0 aggregate advantage without a manager. Sooner our later you have to ask questions of the players, and it's no use calling for more investment from Levy because we lost a game like that.

IMHO it's a bit of a wash at this point. If we finish 5th and win a cup or get top four, I don't think will make a huge difference to who we sign. Any manager would make the case that we'll get the CL/ win something next season given how close we were to either. It would, however, give us something to celebrate and Kane something to show his grandkids instead of a stat list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. We don’t yet know where Kane’s head is at. Original question was top four OR LC - obviously I hope it’s both.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest the comments coming from Kane is kind of why I take the side of the trophy win. Clearly he had a great relationship with Poch but he must've been sold on the idea that we've hired a winner. He has made it clear how he wants to lead us to trophies. Not top four, trophies.

I hope it's both too

posted 1 week, 5 days ago

comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Genius of Nielsen (U9059)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 12 seconds ago
I'm not saying it guarantees anything. You're still ignoring our actual situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure I am.

You’ve said losing finals is starting to define us as a club. We’ve been to two finals recently - 2015 and 2019. Even in 2015 I’m not sure how many players are still here.

We also have a new manager - there isn’t much left from 2015, let alone our previous final in 2009, so I don’t see weak mentality as defining anything. I don’t think we were good enough in 2015 and 2019, but COULD have been from 2019 onwards with the right investment.

And between 2015 and 2019 we have an Asian games winner and a World Cup winner - so there is clearly some strong mentality in the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it does. Everyone knows we bottle the big games. Surely you've heard the Spursy tag? Dr Tottenham? Lads, it's Spurs? Maybe not just finals, but big games in general we bottle it. It's pretty much a fact at this point.

So apart from 2015 and 19, we were good enough, right? The investment was there, we had a top coach, everything, but we still lost every big cup game. Looking at the Europa league exit I can tell you we most certainly don't have a strong mentality of winners.

Just because they've done it with their countries means little when they're playing for Spurs, obviously. If your logic held true we would've won those big games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Between 2015-2019 we were progressing. I think the “team” peaked earlier than planned (I think the aim was to peak a few years into the new stadium), and that it needed additional investment at a crucial time (2018) to push on - a natural step as teams tend to be cyclical and last for about three years (as I said before).

That’s been ripped up by a lack of investment and left field management choice - and top four is crucial.

And we didn’t lose every big cup game - unless your definition is “finals” which is then just two, with the first being right at the beginning of Poch’s era.

This years Europa league loss doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I’m saying we need top four to push on, and our previous “failure” was not to do with a weak mentality. Winning the LC won’t suddenly give the team a strong mentality if it was missing, but I believe will add nothing to the development of the team over the next few years, as it’s not going to keep players or attract new ones (IMHO)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I feel like we're getting bogged down in details. Fact is every cup game is important, we have no right to be arrogant enough to disregard any of them. And by the fact we haven't won any you can say we lost all of the important cup games.

The Europa defeat doesn't prove anything, no, but it serves to illustrate my point. The squad is good enough to win those games. They should be able to put away Wolfsburger with a 2-0 aggregate advantage without a manager. Sooner our later you have to ask questions of the players, and it's no use calling for more investment from Levy because we lost a game like that.

IMHO it's a bit of a wash at this point. If we finish 5th and win a cup or get top four, I don't think will make a huge difference to who we sign. Any manager would make the case that we'll get the CL/ win something next season given how close we were to either. It would, however, give us something to celebrate and Kane something to show his grandkids instead of a stat list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. We don’t yet know where Kane’s head is at. Original question was top four OR LC - obviously I hope it’s both.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest the comments coming from Kane is kind of why I take the side of the trophy win. Clearly he had a great relationship with Poch but he must've been sold on the idea that we've hired a winner. He has made it clear how he wants to lead us to trophies. Not top four, trophies.

I hope it's both too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never wanted Jose, but if he pulls off both there is no denying he’s the most successful manager in my lifetime (36 - don’t remember the 91 FAC).

There are some real fine margins at play here

posted 1 week, 4 days ago

League Cup for me.

posted 1 week, 4 days ago

comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 13 hours, 11 minutes ago
I'd rather skip league cup final and get top 4.

League cup and FA cups are for midtable teams like Arsenal.

In the 90s, we used to win FA Cup or league cup quite often and we were never considered a top side, just a midtable team.

Then we started to get into top 4, get CL games at the lane and even made the final of CL, which has eluded City and their money built team.
And suddenly Spurs thrusted onto the world scene.

Chalk and cheese.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Morespurs, Spurs used to win European trophies from the 60s-80s. Maybe it was before your time, but just getting to finals and finishing top four don`t exactly float my boat.

comment by SteveF (U22027)

posted 1 week, 4 days ago

We NEED to win a cup.

The stigma surrounding this, in the media, our fans and rival fans, impacts on the very fabric of our club.

It appears other clubs ( Everton, West Ham etc ) are not judged on this, but we are. So it needs fixing.

I don't care if it's the third most important trophy, winning it would put so many ghosts to bed.

So what if we miss out on Europe for a season. At least we the fans and the club can hold our heads higher, and take the view that this is the time we as a club start moving forward.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)

posted 1 week, 4 days ago

Personally the way things are I would go for a League Cup. It's something new and we need a trophy, and it would justify Jose's appointment more than limping into the top 4 would.

Top 4 and CL football is great but it wouldn't change much in my feelings towards Jose. I still wouldn't feel we were going into the competition with the right manager. In fairness, I wouldn't feel like we had the right manager if he won the cup but it would at least be something of a job done in terms of what Jose was brought in to do.

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