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The Fred paradox

There are phases of matches where he is comically bad, but I also see why he keeps getting picked. Yesterday he was a strong shout for worst player in red, but I also got what Gary Neville (was it him?) meant when he said he was man of the match. There's disastrous passing and over conservative passing because he understandably doesn't always back himself to thread the ball forward. But there's also the fact that he looks like they've edited the footage to make him buzz around at 1.5 times the speed of the other players, and that energy in midfield was a key part of what powered us to the win yesterday. And then you get the odd passage of play when he unleashes a series of passes (like those leading up to Cavani's shot which he followed up to score) that imply he may in fact be a professional footballer, who grew up in Brazil.

He's simultaneously good and bad - a kind of Schrödinger's catenaccio. I think it's clear we need an upgrade in that position but I can't help liking the dude.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Cromwell - agent of the hierarchy. (U6374)
posted 46 seconds ago
IAmMe has the most insane profile I've ever seen.
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Did you click through to his websites Robbing?

There's the kitschy digital artwork accompanied by intro text that's very much in the authorial voice of IAmMe. And then there's the link to his music - colourfully entitled 'space monkey apocalypse' or something - and I was genuinely disappointed that the site seems to have lapsed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I had actually listened to his music some time ago, and have just re-acquainted myself with his artwork. There was some personal info on there that, I have to admit, was easy enough to verify that he's real (I was curious!) as far as I can tell.

He's an extraordinarily odd chap.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I really need you to describe the music.
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It's on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/adew8/videos

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 55 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Cromwell - agent of the hierarchy. (U6374)
posted 46 seconds ago
IAmMe has the most insane profile I've ever seen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you click through to his websites Robbing?

There's the kitschy digital artwork accompanied by intro text that's very much in the authorial voice of IAmMe. And then there's the link to his music - colourfully entitled 'space monkey apocalypse' or something - and I was genuinely disappointed that the site seems to have lapsed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I had actually listened to his music some time ago, and have just re-acquainted myself with his artwork. There was some personal info on there that, I have to admit, was easy enough to verify that he's real (I was curious!) as far as I can tell.

He's an extraordinarily odd chap.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I really need you to describe the music.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/adew8/videos
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Isnt this Ross from Friends when he gets his keyboard out?

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

He's probably an intelligent chap in his own right, IAmMe. I imagine him to be the type of guy who can go to an art gallery and talk hours of shīt about the meaning behind a random splodge of colours on a canvas.

When it comes to football though, I genuinely don't think I've ever come across someone who is at the same time both so clueless yet so arrogant. I actually kind of respect it.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
Dazza & Rosso, I came back after a few hours and read your conversation. I'm afraid I get too absorbed in games to analyse what's happening to such a deep tactical level so I found it really enlightening.

BTW any material you would recommend reading on different approaches to pressing? I feel like I need to read up on tactics before I can contribute intelligently to this discussion!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR

Sorry about the delay getting back on this.

There’s a good bit on pressing in Michael Cox’s latest (I think!) book ‘The Mixer’, which looks at the evolution of tactics right through the PL era. That’s a fantastic book. Probably the best book on football tactics I’ve read, full stop.

Lee Scott’s book on Pep Guardiola also has quite a bit in if I remember rightly.

If you’re feeling particularly geeky, there are various coaching texts on the theory and execution of pressing, counterpressing, different zonal techniques, etc. available.

Or check out the articles on spielverlagerung.com.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
He's probably an intelligent chap in his own right, IAmMe. I imagine him to be the type of guy who can go to an art gallery and talk hours of shīt about the meaning behind a random splodge of colours on a canvas.

When it comes to football though, I genuinely don't think I've ever come across someone who is at the same time both so clueless yet so arrogant. I actually kind of respect it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A sort of Brian Sewell or David Starkey character

posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

Here’s a good piece, RR:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/05/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/#

Have a look at the bits on man-oriented zonal marking and space-oriented zonal marking (this is also referred to as collapse pressing), both of which are particularly relevant to us. We sometimes transition from one to another by, for example, working to force the ball to a fullback or winger by limiting access in central areas, then having three players ‘collapse’ in on the wide player.

And sometimes we’ll use a hybrid system. Against City, for example, and very successfully, we used quite a heavy version of our usual zonal press, with Martial and James chasing the City CBs and Zinchenko, but with Rashford and Bruno dropping in to man mark Cancelo and Rodri (acting as the City midfield), cutting off City’s front five.

This both delivered turnovers and saw De Bruyne and Gundogan forced back into midfield to provide the City back line with access, breaking City’s shape and slowing their transition.

posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

comment by rosso - can’t waste a day when the night brings a hearse (U17054)
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
Here’s a good piece, RR:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/05/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/#

Have a look at the bits on man-oriented zonal marking and space-oriented zonal marking (this is also referred to as collapse pressing), both of which are particularly relevant to us. We sometimes transition from one to another by, for example, working to force the ball to a fullback or winger by limiting access in central areas, then having three players ‘collapse’ in on the wide player.

And sometimes we’ll use a hybrid system. Against City, for example, and very successfully, we used quite a heavy version of our usual zonal press, with Martial and James chasing the City CBs and Zinchenko, but with Rashford and Bruno dropping in to man mark Cancelo and Rodri (acting as the City midfield), cutting off City’s front five.

This both delivered turnovers and saw De Bruyne and Gundogan forced back into midfield to provide the City back line with access, breaking City’s shape and slowing their transition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for sharing the link, Rosso. Useful reading. Though it didn't once mention your beloved 'situational press'!

posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by rosso - can’t waste a day when the night brings a hearse (U17054)
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
Here’s a good piece, RR:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/05/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/#

Have a look at the bits on man-oriented zonal marking and space-oriented zonal marking (this is also referred to as collapse pressing), both of which are particularly relevant to us. We sometimes transition from one to another by, for example, working to force the ball to a fullback or winger by limiting access in central areas, then having three players ‘collapse’ in on the wide player.

And sometimes we’ll use a hybrid system. Against City, for example, and very successfully, we used quite a heavy version of our usual zonal press, with Martial and James chasing the City CBs and Zinchenko, but with Rashford and Bruno dropping in to man mark Cancelo and Rodri (acting as the City midfield), cutting off City’s front five.

This both delivered turnovers and saw De Bruyne and Gundogan forced back into midfield to provide the City back line with access, breaking City’s shape and slowing their transition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for sharing the link, Rosso. Useful reading. Though it didn't once mention your beloved 'situational press'!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just about any kind of press can be situational in nature.

All it really signifies is whether the press is automatically triggered by a change in the phase of play (moving from the attacking phase to the defensive transition phase - counterpressing - or moving from the defensive transition phase to the to the defensive phase) regardless of the immediately present state of the game, or whether it is triggered based on the players’ assessment (or that of the coach on the sidelines) of the opportunity.

The latter is obviously a more sophisticated approach, because it allows a well-schooled, intelligent group of players (or particularly shouty coach) to determine whether the potential reward in winning the ball back early and high up the pitch outweighs the risk associated with running the press. The players (or the coach) may decide otherwise to have the players sit in a holding pattern zonal mid-block, say, waiting to see how the game develops, or simply to complete the defensive transition if they’re otherwise setting up a low block defence (as we often do).

You’ll also commonly read about ‘triggers’ which can be used to determine when the players should start to engage in the press. These can be particular opposition players taking possession of the ball, the ball entering certain zones, spotting a miscontrol, judging the player taking control of the ball to be isolated with little or no access to teammates, etc.

Our default position in those games and game-states in which we’ve decided to deploy a press is something like situational man-oriented zonal marking. Or, if you want, a SMOZM

posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

^ Although as I mentioned above, we sometimes use an opportunistic collapse press too.

There’s a lot of energy burned in collapse pressing, though, and teams are wise to use it sparingly (unless, like Pep and Klopp, you have an illegal, underground PED manufacturing facility and doping centre).

posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

Thanks Rosso. I'll keep that it mind when watching us.

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