When evolution destroys sport.
A new proposal for a European Super League in football is here (we seem to get them every year or so).
Clubs complain about too many matches Yrs want to form a new league playing European fixtures with all the travel that involves during midweek.
There will be no relegation from these leagues and no promotion, similar to American sport with effectively same fixtures every season.
The football authorities have said no and that this teams and those players will be banned from their competitions and national sides.
JP Morgan are backing this, there must be broadcasters and betting companies too. I really hope we don’t see 11 sport in the mix here.
This is purely and simply about clubs trying to make more money and screw everyone else.
No regard whatsoever for the fan.
It’s not just football. We saw this happen to tennis with Spanish football player destroying the team format in tennis.
The Davis cup taken from the fans, the chance to be involved in the passion of those ties, replaced by expensive alternative that lost its soul.
I don’t look at this with rose tinted specs, I look at it that something really valuable, tangible and loved by the fans gets stolen by some greedy, selfish bunch of merchant bankers who have no idea about the sport, just the streaming services that they can sell.
European Super League: Premier League's 'big six' agree to join new league https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56795811
When Evolution destroys sport
posted on 19/4/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
posted on 19/4/21
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fair enough, but in my view they do have enough clout collectively. The PL can kick them out, but that will almost certainly lead to a a huge loss of revenue in terms of sponsorship and TV money, which many of the remaining clubs rely on to be solvent. The big 6 clubs would be hurt, but the new SL money would keep them going. The likes of West Ham etc would have no such resources to draw on. What happens if these clubs suddenly don't have enough money to pay their salary commitments?
Similar with banning players from the World Cup. Are the sponsors going to be haply and willing to pay as much if the best players in the world are banned? Now Fifa might still decide that the integrity is worth the financial risk, but when have FIFA ever done that?
posted on 19/4/21
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, it is entirely money driven. I imagine the Liverpool owners are big drivers of this. They were keen to push the PL project that got voted down a while back.
posted on 19/4/21
Gary Neville's said it best. I agree with him 100%.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that many people are happy with this. I've seen a few people who claim to be all in favour, but everyone else is against it. Some are more vehement, and some ate more resigned.
posted on 19/4/21
Here is the ice skating case
https://www.ashurst.com/en/news-and-insights/legal-updates/competition-law-newsletter-february-2021/cn03---eu-general-court-issues-judgment-in-international-skating-union-case/