if any of you saw the post match interviews on BT last night ( which is unlikely as most of you are tight feckers) you may have seen Robbie savage claim that Pep is the greatest PL manager ever.
this was on the basis that he improves players and won the pl playing with a false number 9.
now while i can appreciate what he has done surely he has some way to go before he takes Fergies mantle as the greatest ever.
Pep has 3 pl titles in 5 years....Wenger did that in 6 years without spending anywhere near as much and also reached the CL final in that time like city this season.
savages arguments for pep did make me realise he was a bigger nob than i first thought.
while its impressive that he won with a false 9 and improves players, it gott me thinking if fergie ever improved any players and what he did in the game that could make him a contender.
im not sure if anyone remembers the greasy haired kid from portugal with a bad complexion, a weird thing in his hair and a piiish poor end product.. think his name was Ronaldo.. he improved a bit.
Then there was the young scouse lad signed from Everton... good young player who signed for Utd and went on to become our best ever goalscorer and also went on to do the same from England.
then there was the summer we shipped out Ince, kanchelskis and Hughes... and replaced them with those seasoned pros, the neville brothers, beckham, scholes and butt.... im sure they improved under fergie to the point that a few have been some of the best we have seen in the PL in their positions.
Pep the best ever.. dont make me laugh.. probably only just ahead of Wenger... and thats debatable
is pep the best PL manager of all time?
posted on 12/5/21
comment by EdinSelloutSpurs (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 2 minutes ago
Utd basically walked a crap PL for the whole of the 90s. A Blackburn side that didn’t do anything but put in crosses for a whole season and that won them the league. If we are making excuses for some of Peps successes then we can easily do the same with SAF.
What Pep did at Barca is one of the most impressive things I have ever seen (and probably will ever see). It’s a tough comparison as it depends what parameters you are judging them by but it’s hardly the most outrageous claim.
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Fair
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 27 minutes ago
SAF adapted and kept winning. The likes of Wenger and Jose didn't do this.
Pep is a great coach there's no doubt about that and I don't understand why people say he needs to go to a smaller club to prove it. He's at the top because he's proven he can be there!
On SAF though I've often wondered if his long-term team building and evolving to meet challenges came at a cost in terms of CL wins. I think had he thought short-term a bit more often we'd have a few more. I suppose he was unlucky to bump into Pep's Barca though!
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I think people are not saying that he needs to go to a smaller club but perhaps not have everything stacked in his favour.
At City its money. At Bayern it was total dominance of the club in the Bundesliga. At Barca he had Messi Xavi Iniesta etc.
This is the first UCL final he has reached without Messi in his team...that itself at least prompts the question that given the positions he has taken has he achieved anything more than expected, has he done something truly remarkable, perhaps against the odds?
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So winning every possible trophy in one season with Barca is not truly remarkable? Winning a sixtuple was never done before and wont happen again anytime soon. I call that truly remarkable
posted on 12/5/21
Did u pick Ronaldo and rooney as players that showed ferries skill? Seems a bit weird. Rooney was known by all coaches from a very early age and was on every clubs radar as an enigma. Ronaldo was hardly unknown either and united got him cos neville said they begged fergie to do so after he torethem up pretty season.
Winning titles with we brown and oshea is way more impressive than making rooney and Ronaldo world class imo.
Pep- best coach around but fergie was a better manager. It's rare anyone will manage a team and get the the control fergie/wenger did nowadays. People underestimate just how much they did compared to today's managers
posted on 12/5/21
To play the devils advocate, those who believe Pep is the best ever, how do you feel about these points:
1) Only ever having managed the best squads in the league
2) Having the largest transfer budgets in the league (maybe Real had bigger)
3) Failure in Europe with Bayern, possibly with City too...(he should have won a CL with City already really, competition hasn't been that stiff).
posted on 12/5/21
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
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That was still a top 4 squad that had been winning various trophies and had a number of quality players in it. It was probably the strongest squad in the league even at that point.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
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Is that not saying he has barely had any time to manage/form his team though? Shouldn't necessarily be seen as a black mark. It's his job to turn it into his team and his way of playing. Like asking a chef to create an amazing recipe in 10 minutes, but only using some mouldy bread and a half eaten wispa gold that the previous guy left over. You'd probably be better judging his work when he uses his own ingredients, methods and is allowed more than 10 minutes to make it.
posted on 12/5/21
It is also worth noting that Fergie was quite specific about the players he wanted in his team. If we were doing a hypothetical scenario where Fergie was only allowed to manage someone else's players, some primadonas at PSG or something, he may not fair as well.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by (K̀‡ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
"won the pl playing with a false number 9."
I thought he played Aguero and/or Jesus a lot in all of his PL triumphs, not to say he didn't play a "false No9" on occasion, but Jose did that with Hazard....
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We were the first team to win title with false 9 with Firmino but City fans seems to be clinging on this like they were the first.
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Honestly, who gives a feck?
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Exactly. Why should anyone give a fack about that?
Conte was the first to win the PL setting up 3-4-3. Who gives a fack?
Ranieri was the first to win the PL with his team averaging under 40% possession of the ball. Who gives a fack?
I mean, if Pep had invented the false nine whilst at City, and then gone on to win the title with it, that’d be something else. But I have no idea why everyone is banging on about this like it’s some kind of unique feat.
posted on 12/5/21
Depends how you interpret the statement really.
If it’s is he the best premier league manager ever then no, he’d have to stay here a long while to even get close to that. If it’s is he the best manager to have coached in the PL, then I imagine there will be plenty that will think so by the time he retires at least.