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London Bridge - Nothing like the movies

Just been reading the report from the inquest into the police shooting of Usman Khan. It gives a great insight into the massive personal pressure the armed police are under in these circumstances and couldn’t be further removed from what’s portrayed on our screens, where a quick ‘double tap’ usually does the job. TWENTY rounds were fired before they could be certain the threat was removed.

I think it also shows why all police officers aren’t routinely armed, and rightly so. There are very few people who are able to operate effectively under that kind of pressure, and I believe it should be kept as it is, with only a select few given that huge responsibility.

Here’s the article….

London Bridge terrorist Usman Khan was lawfully killed by armed police who "believe he was trying to find a trigger" on a suicide vest when they shot him dead, an inquest jury has found.
Officers fired at Khan 20 times after he stabbed and killed prison rehabilitation workers Jack Merritt, 25, and Saskia Jones, 23, at an event at Fishmongers' Hall in November 2019.
At an inquest into his death, coroner Mark Lucraft QC directed jurors to return a conclusion of lawful killing, on the grounds that each of the officers who shot at Khan believed it was necessary to protect themselves and the public.

Eight bullets missed their target. None of the critical head shots, designed to kill him instantly, hit him.
When officers on one side of London Bridge heard shots being fired from a different direction they didn't know at first whether they had heard colleagues' guns or were being fired on themselves by potential accomplices of Khan.

And there were a lot of passers-by who had to be cleared from the bridge, some of whom believed they had stumbled on to a film set and didn't know they could be in danger from the terrorist and police crossfire.
The first officers scrambled to the scene were told initially that a woman had been stabbed and thought only their first aid skills were needed.
As they got closer they learned they might have to use their weapons, but still didn't know the suspect was a terrorist.

Three officers from an armed response vehicle ran towards a group of men attacking Khan on the pavement and tried to assess the risk.
PC YX99, granted anonymity like all police during the inquest, had less than two years' experience as an armed officer and hesitantly recalled how he reached through the throng to grab Khan who he thought was unarmed.
He told the inquest that Khan looked at him and said: "I've got a bomb."
The officer told the jury: "At that moment I was slightly stunned. I thought you selfish ****, you want to die and you want me to kill you. You start to think of all different outcomes and what you're going to do."
He also thought Khan could be mentally ill and he might be accused of shooting an innocent man. He then checked the 28-year-old for any hidden explosive device and found a belt, copper wire, containers and what looked like white plasticine.

Then, he said, all he could think of was to get the men tackling Khan off him so he could shoot the attacker. "I thought the bomb was 100% real and that he would detonate it and we were all going to die," he said.
"The last thing I remember thinking is, it's going to hurt and also thinking, try and shoot him, get people off and shoot him. You are relying on muscle memory and training to make the best of a situation that you can."
The officer said as soon as he got a clear shot at Khan he fired twice and thought he had killed him. But he hadn't and Khan was lying on the pavement, continuing to move, raising his arms and, after eight minutes, tried to sit up.
PC YX99 said: "I was in shock, in a bit of a panicked state to be honest. I was relieved to be alive still and my ears were ringing because I didn't have Peltors (ear defenders) on. I had fired a couple of shots and was fully expecting him to be dead so when he moved I was stunned.
"I was partly doubting myself just because of the way other people reacted when I said 'he's got a bomb' - they weren't reacting as quickly as I was because you don't want to be anywhere near it.
"I was beginning to doubt myself, thinking I had definitely seen something around his waist. I was wondering is it a real device. I was still trying to get people standing there, shouting, trying to get them away as well."

Continued below…..

posted 2 days, 6 hours ago

comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - The Artist Formerly Known as Prince (U1282)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Yep this is why it facks me off that morons like Corbyn and AOC say aim for the legs and arms, as if police officers are like the terminator or the facking predator with lazer like precision in life and death situations.
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So they say aim for arms and legs when dealing with terrorists or just when dealing with local crime?

They didn't need to shoot this guys until they saw the IED. The recommended response in that situation is a head shot, for obvious reasons. You can't apply the same response to other kinds of criminals, obviously.
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Sorry, I don't think you realise how unbelievably difficult it would be to shoot an arm or a leg.

Aim for the biggest target.

Also, again police shootings are insanely rare in this country!
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I was more talking about America

As I believe the original comment was largely based on apart from shoehorning Corbyn into it
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Fair play!

posted 2 days, 6 hours ago

comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - The Artist Formerly Known as Prince (U1282)
posted 12 hours, 23 minutes ago
Unless AOC is English somehow.
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Well I was questioning what an injury prone midfielder had to do with all of this

posted 2 days, 4 hours ago

comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 6 hours, 51 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
I’m wondering how many on here have actual experience with firearms? And I don’t mean your grandads .22 air rifle or paintball guns, but the 5.56 calibre that the police and armed forces use?

If you did then you’d realise that a heat of the moment head shot is incredibly difficult to do. Even in this case it’s stated that none of the attempted head shots hit the target and 8 out of 20 of all shots missed. The overriding factor for this is pressure, more than most of us will ever come close to experiencing in our lives. You can be sure in training the success rate will be far higher than that, but until you’re in a real life situation no one knows how any individual will perform. It was the centre mass shots that disabled him, and in the forces that is what you’re taught. I can’t say for definite because I don’t have experience of police policy, but I’d guess that the first aim would be to disable with the centre mass shots and then the follow up if there is still a threat to life will be a head shot.
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I have experience with firearms, but delete my comment all you want. Doesn't make what i said less true. You've no clue as to why they missed their target.
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Yet you suggest that pressure wasn’t a factor. That tells my you’re just being argumentative because it’s me, because you only have to read the police officer’s statements, you know the ones that were actually there, to realise the amount of pressure they were under. And you’re also wrong with your effective range. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you say 50m or less? With a 5.56? You’re way out.

I reckon most of your experience has come from reading Andy McNab fiction.
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I said a Glock or Browning, which is 9mm, not 5.56.

I didnt say pressure had nothing to do with it, I said they missed because a pistol only has a short range. I assume they had pistols because you are talking about police officers. Police officers normally do not carry rifles, unless they are special unit. So if it was a special unit, I doubt pressure made them shoot poorly. They are supposed to be able to handle the pressure, otherwise they are not fit for the job.

I fired Glock, Browning, AK-47, Uzi, C7, MAG, .50, FN FAL. I did 3 tours in Bosnia, the first one in 1997. I served with the Desert Rats.
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British armed police use the MP5 Carbine which is a 5.56. What makes you think that uniformed armed police units would use only pistols? I reckon you’re getting confused with American police.
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Because most police in Europe use pistols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country

I didn't know the police in the UK is unarmed and that there is a distinction between armed and unarmed police.
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Then maybe get your facts right before gibbing off. Our police have never been routinely armed, it’s a very well known fact.
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Pot kettle ffs, If they buckled under the pressure they are not fit for the job. But you are making assumptions, that they buckled under pressure, without any substantial evidence. Shooting moving targets is simply not easy.

You're trying to come across as Billy big bollox know it all, but you're just looking silly.

posted 2 days, 4 hours ago

Pot kettle ffs, If they buckled under the pressure they are not fit for the job. But you are making assumptions, that they buckled under pressure, without any substantial evidence. Shooting moving targets is simply not easy.

You're trying to come across as Billy big bollox know it all, but you're just looking silly.
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Did you actually read the evidence the officer gave? He thought he was going to die! I can’t think of a more stressful situation for any person to be in, and no one knows how you react in that situation, no matter what training you have. I’ve not used the term ‘buckled under pressure’ at all, that’s just one of your assumptions. I’m merely highlighting just how much stress they’re under.

I think you’re the one trying and failing miserably to be ‘Billy Big Bollox’. Trying to put me in my place with your declaration that British police don’t use rifles when it’s their standard issue weapon. Even worse you think all police are routinely armed and based your argument on that, and they’ve never been armed, and that’s something they’re well known for throughout the world. That’s pretty embarrassing tbh.

posted 2 days, 3 hours ago

Cannot see how anybody could disagree with Term here tbh and I disagree with Term several times a day sometimes

It's a pressure that you or I will never ever experience. It's probably a pressure that very few police officers come across in their careers and here we are trying to make judgements.

This isn't call of duty (not that I'm able to hit headshots there...)

comment by Jay. (U16498)

posted 2 days, 3 hours ago

One of the worst days of my life this one (and the Borough Market one). I work in London Bridge and both of these happened a couple of hundreds yards away. Being locked inside your building while there are maniacs running around with knives & potentially explosives is pretty terrifying.

I don't know about most other areas of London, but there is always a significant presence of armed officers patrolling around London Bridge, and they definitely don't use pistols! The police don't realistically have time in the moment to decide whether or not the vest the dude's wearing is a fake, and given that he'd already killed and injured people, I'm thankful they didn't take the risk.

posted 2 days, 2 hours ago

comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
Pot kettle ffs, If they buckled under the pressure they are not fit for the job. But you are making assumptions, that they buckled under pressure, without any substantial evidence. Shooting moving targets is simply not easy.

You're trying to come across as Billy big bollox know it all, but you're just looking silly.
—————
Did you actually read the evidence the officer gave? He thought he was going to die! I can’t think of a more stressful situation for any person to be in, and no one knows how you react in that situation, no matter what training you have. I’ve not used the term ‘buckled under pressure’ at all, that’s just one of your assumptions. I’m merely highlighting just how much stress they’re under.

I think you’re the one trying and failing miserably to be ‘Billy Big Bollox’. Trying to put me in my place with your declaration that British police don’t use rifles when it’s their standard issue weapon. Even worse you think all police are routinely armed and based your argument on that, and they’ve never been armed, and that’s something they’re well known for throughout the world. That’s pretty embarrassing tbh.
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Can you try and add more fallacies to your comment?

posted 2 days, 1 hour ago

If your job is to deal with highly stressful situations and you crumble under pressure, something is wrong.

Before going to Bosina, I was lightly trained on how to deal with mobs, in case you were ever to find youself in that situation. I am a regular guy, no die hard SAS luitenant. And on my way between two bases, I did end up having to approach an angry mob in Novi Travnik and had negotiate my way through (freedom of movement for SFOR). And literally all that went through my head was the training. In high pressure situations, your brain goes into hyperdrive and almost act on instinct. I did exactly as I was trained to do and I solved the situation without a single incident. They let me through safely.

posted 2 days, 1 hour ago

comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 2 minutes ago
If your job is to deal with highly stressful situations and you crumble under pressure, something is wrong.

Before going to Bosina, I was lightly trained on how to deal with mobs, in case you were ever to find youself in that situation. I am a regular guy, no die hard SAS luitenant. And on my way between two bases, I did end up having to approach an angry mob in Novi Travnik and had negotiate my way through (freedom of movement for SFOR). And literally all that went through my head was the training. In high pressure situations, your brain goes into hyperdrive and almost act on instinct. I did exactly as I was trained to do and I solved the situation without a single incident. They let me through safely.
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I’m sure that was a tense situation, but you’re comparing to to facing up to someone who could literally blow you up at any second.

Bit daft really.

posted 2 days, 1 hour ago

comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
Pot kettle ffs, If they buckled under the pressure they are not fit for the job. But you are making assumptions, that they buckled under pressure, without any substantial evidence. Shooting moving targets is simply not easy.

You're trying to come across as Billy big bollox know it all, but you're just looking silly.
—————
Did you actually read the evidence the officer gave? He thought he was going to die! I can’t think of a more stressful situation for any person to be in, and no one knows how you react in that situation, no matter what training you have. I’ve not used the term ‘buckled under pressure’ at all, that’s just one of your assumptions. I’m merely highlighting just how much stress they’re under.

I think you’re the one trying and failing miserably to be ‘Billy Big Bollox’. Trying to put me in my place with your declaration that British police don’t use rifles when it’s their standard issue weapon. Even worse you think all police are routinely armed and based your argument on that, and they’ve never been armed, and that’s something they’re well known for throughout the world. That’s pretty embarrassing tbh.
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Can you try and add more fallacies to your comment?
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It’s all in this article for anyone to see. You’ve literally made everything up. You’re hard faced, I’ll give you that. But also an utter feckwit.

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