Camavinga & Saul

comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Plump CR7 (U22314)
posted 5 minutes ago
Renato Sanches is joining Wolves on loan

Can only mean one thing...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, the one thing I hope it's not after his mardy-arsed fannnying around yesterday is Neves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neves is a great player, he was very good against us yesterday as well. I'd be very happy if he was the deadline day signing as much as if it was Rice.

comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 10 seconds ago
Not proclaiming to be an expert on him by any means but the hype as well as the amount of our own (and other clubs) fans questioning why the clubs aren't him for him just got me intrigued. Statistically he isn't an upgrade on Fred at all.

Surprised to see Fred is only like 3 years older as well and I've generally just gone along with the idea that Bissouma is a young ish prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I enjoyed reading your analysis. I have literally never paid any attention to bissouma but the momentun of the hype around him had me thinking maybe he was the next ndidi. Then I realised he was older than ndidi

I personally think ndidi is by far the best signing we can make. Only Kante and fabinho are better than ndidi in the epl.Ndidi is 24 yrs old while kante is 30 and fabinho 27

but will leicester sell

comment by Constantinople (U11781)
posted 6 minutes ago
Camavinga is about to join Real apparently

https://twitter.com/deadlinedaylive/status/1432450132713345026?s=21
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like when sanches joined bayern, I will not lose sleep over camavinga joining real. He is a talent but I suspect he still has some developing to do
I think real is the right move for him at this stage of his career as he will be under less pressure in madrid's engine room in laliga compared to utd's engine room in the epl

comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 10 seconds ago
Not proclaiming to be an expert on him by any means but the hype as well as the amount of our own (and other clubs) fans questioning why the clubs aren't him for him just got me intrigued. Statistically he isn't an upgrade on Fred at all.

Surprised to see Fred is only like 3 years older as well and I've generally just gone along with the idea that Bissouma is a young ish prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I enjoyed reading your analysis. I have literally never paid any attention to bissouma but the momentun of the hype around him had me thinking maybe he was the next ndidi. Then I realised he was older than ndidi

I personally think ndidi is by far the best signing we can make. Only Kante and fabinho are better than ndidi in the epl.Ndidi is 24 yrs old while kante is 30 and fabinho 27

but will leicester sell
----------------------------------------------------------------------

N'Didi is basically 'the' guy for a tackling, pressing defensive midfielder in the Prem but I can't see Leicester selling unless he pushed for a move and they seem like the sort of club where their players have more respect for them than that. Even then he'd be an insane cost, just not a realistic option.

Also think there may be a passing of the torch over the next 12 months with Kante. No clue how long his contract is though. Would I stick another year of Fred if it meant getting N'didi? I'd take that to be honest. I could completely see Chelsea going in and grabbing him though and just seamlessly moving from Kante to gim.

Maybe even Kante going back the other way in a move that suits everybody at that point in time.

comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 10 seconds ago
Not proclaiming to be an expert on him by any means but the hype as well as the amount of our own (and other clubs) fans questioning why the clubs aren't him for him just got me intrigued. Statistically he isn't an upgrade on Fred at all.

Surprised to see Fred is only like 3 years older as well and I've generally just gone along with the idea that Bissouma is a young ish prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I enjoyed reading your analysis. I have literally never paid any attention to bissouma but the momentun of the hype around him had me thinking maybe he was the next ndidi. Then I realised he was older than ndidi

I personally think ndidi is by far the best signing we can make. Only Kante and fabinho are better than ndidi in the epl.Ndidi is 24 yrs old while kante is 30 and fabinho 27

but will leicester sell
----------------------------------------------------------------------

N'Didi is basically 'the' guy for a tackling, pressing defensive midfielder in the Prem but I can't see Leicester selling unless he pushed for a move and they seem like the sort of club where their players have more respect for them than that. Even then he'd be an insane cost, just not a realistic option.

Also think there may be a passing of the torch over the next 12 months with Kante. No clue how long his contract is though. Would I stick another year of Fred if it meant getting N'didi? I'd take that to be honest. I could completely see Chelsea going in and grabbing him though and just seamlessly moving from Kante to gim.

Maybe even Kante going back the other way in a move that suits everybody at that point in time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again you raise excellent points

as much as I think we need a cdm this year to take advantage of the presence of cavani and cr7 that is a year younger and pogba while he is still here. I will happily defer signing a cdm if it means getting ndidi next year (I rate him that much)

In the last hours I hear wolves are getting sanches and I cannot help but feel it means neves is joining utd.

while neves is not quite ndidi good (mostly due to pace), I think he is the next best thing after ndidi and makes up with his incredible passing

"while neves is not quite ndidi good (mostly due to pace), I think he is the next best thing after ndidi and makes up with his incredible passing"

Haven't had someone like that since Carrick

I agree neves will be fantastic
I think neves and ndidi are evenly matched in the most important things for a cdm like intelligence and ability to sense danger. But their style is different uses is in the kante category of cdm while neves is in the carrick category.

I really like ndidi and I think we need his energy if pogba is in midfield too. But neves will also pair nicely with fred/mct (destroyers) like carrick complimented hargreaves and later fletcher in difficult games

ndidi and neves are both fantastic

Lets be honest to ourselves. Rice is the best target.

—
He’s really not. Certainly not at a price over 3 times what he should be worth imo.

One of the main things levelled at Fred is that he's awful at passing. Be honest, how many people really watch Bissouma all that much? Genuinely?

****************************

I've watched him twice in the last 2 weeks. He passes my Eye test in terms of mentality and ability. He has a "footballing brain" twice the physical ability of Fred, Is probably a top 10 carrier of the ball in midfield imo.

If his stats are depressed, it will come from playing on a poorer team.

---------------------------------------

I enjoyed reading your analysis. I have literally never paid any attention to bissouma but the momentun of the hype around him had me thinking maybe he was the next ndidi. Then I realised he was older than ndidi

I personally think ndidi is by far the best signing we can make. Only Kante and fabinho are better than ndidi in the epl.Ndidi is 24 yrs old while kante is 30 and fabinho 27

but will leicester sell

***************************************

Ndidi is a ball winner in the purest form in league. Only Kante is better imo. But our formation is one which favours bypassing midfields and requires a passing range he does not have.

Rice, Neves have the passing range. Rice is better physically, Neves is marginally better technically. Maybe most important. Rice has the ability to time runs into the box, something Carrick used to do a lot.

He is probably not worth what West Ham would want, but unless our scouts are actually able to find players are lower levels who can fill the role so adequately, Rice is the best option in my opinion.

comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 12 hours, 59 minutes ago
I'm not all that convinced by Bissouma to be honest. I don't watch Brighton a ton but he's looked decent enough when I've seen him. Digging more into him, I didn't realise how poor the rest of his game was.

It's one thing being an energetic, busy tackler for a team like Brighton but a completely different one needing to be a midfielder for Manchester United.

Hes marginally better than Fred in the tackle but Fred out performs him in interceptions, pressures, successful pressures etc. Across the board, Fred is the superior player defensively which is surprising because you'd expect him to have. A lot more to do at Brighton but he doesn't attempt or complete as much of basically anything than Fred does.

Then there's the rest and his passing stats are truly awful. He's well into the lower end of all midfielders right the way across the board. Far, far worse than Fred's.

Lot of people of different clubs asking "why aren't we in for Bissouma" and I'd hazard a guess that that is probably why. Clubs will review this in way more detail and won't just catch the odd performance or highlights. I'm guilty of just riding the wave with Bissouma and thinking with all the hype that he must be better than I've seen and put a chunk down to the fact I don't watch him much.

None of numbers are anywhere near elite level. If those who get annoyed with Fred are the same calling for us to sign Bissouma then I'd hazard a guess that it's based on limited time watching - or at least a fairly poor/sloppy analyse.

People will say "ah but stats don't tell you the story, I can use the eye test", as though that immediately makes their eyes worth trusting but he's not just. A it meh here and there, right across the board he's no where near the standard we need. Statistically, over the course of an entire season, he's basically worse than Fred at absolutely everything. Stats don't lie and take passes for example, considering short, medium and long passes, Fred not only attempts more, he completes more (a fair bit more as well) and his completion rate is higher.

One of the main things levelled at Fred is that he's awful at passing. Be honest, how many people really watch Bissouma all that much? Genuinely?

At this point I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. Camavinga strongly put performs him right across the board as well. So does Neves.

Hes the cool player to want though, I guess. If someone could either give a proper account of him and back it up then that would be great but from everything I'm looking at, hes nowhere near an elite level. Statistically, he's about around Lemina's level and that's with Lemina actually edging it in general.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All fair points Fox. Even if I do find the suggestion that Bissouma is just the 'cool' player to want a little patronising. For what it's worth I watched a fair bit of Brighton last season when all games were on air - they are genuinely one of the most entertaining teams in this league to watch with a fantastic young English manager who is also worth keeping an eye on.

Re. the stats - interesting, but as always have to be viewed with a bit of caution. For context, Fred also vastly outperformed Paul Pogba in short, medium and long passes completed per 90 (according to fbref) - as did Bissouma for the latter 2 incidentally.

I dont think anyone would dare try to use that to try and prove Fred is a more competent passer of the ball than Pogba - what it probably does tell us though is that a) Fred is not the bumbling idiot he is made out to be and b) stats like that should really be viewed with a player's role within a team in mind.

Onto Bissouma, what I really like about him, that I think is massively missing from our pivot the moment, is his technique and press resistance. A couple of things which probably can't be measured with metrics. But we really, really lack a player who can, from a deep-lying position, get himself out of a tight situation in 2 touches and get his team on the attack. Bissouma does it as well as anyone in the league - certainly better than Ndidi, Rice or Neves. For a team like ours that inisists on building from the back its absolutely essential. I think there is also a real dearth of technical quality on the right hand side of our pitch which has been particularly evident since Herrera left - Bissouma goes some way to rectifying that - he is just a really intelligent, all round midfielder

I don't doubt the club have sensible reasons for not wanting him at the moment- as I said earlier I don't think he would be a particularly good partner for Pogba (though would be an excellent one for either of McFred). And with Pogba's future up in the air it's quite difficult to identify the exact type of midfielder we need. I know people are crying out for a Busquets-type metronome but we just don't play with one, and probably won't whilst Ole and Bruno are at the club).

On Bissouma though, I'd be very surprised if one of the big boys don't take a chance on him at some point over the next 12 months.