With the squad that we have at present I think most of us will know where the weakness is. I won't claim to be a tactical genius here at all but I've been wondering whether we could see a back three at some point like below.
DDG
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
McT
Fred
Pogba (a floating role on the left of midfield and not too rigid)
Sancho
Bruno
Rashford
Ronaldo
The pros of this would be Pogba playing a LM position with less responsibility than in the two in midfield, it would allow us to keep McT and Fred in the team (as we do seem to lose a lot less games when they play - draw more though) and it would also allow scope to integrate the likes of VDB into the Pogba or Bruno roles and Lindelof to get games as part of the three at the back.
The negatives would be we could perhaps lose some of Shaw's driving runs forward and crossing ability (who though I'd say that a couple of seasons ago!) and also lose AWB's covering and recovery abilities.
I'm not advocating this in every game but perhaps against teams that come to sit back.
Feel free to critique as you see fit. I know it's mostly going to be a 4231 but, if Ole wanted to do that with the above personnel, he could just move McT to RB.
Three at the back?
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
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Bruno could go into the McT position there as well and have someone like Sancho starting centrally behind the strikers.
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what sunday illustrated is that playing 2 in midfield, with none of the forward players making a consistent attempt to drop deep to help in the build-up, is asking for trouble in a league when almost every other team plays at least 3 in midfield, and frequently more (as forward players drop in).
we certainly can't hope for much long-term joy playing the weird 4-2-4 we played on sunday (which works much better when pogba is nominally playing "left-wing", because he is really just playing as a 3rd, advanced, midfielder)
posted on 3/9/21
Don
Yeah obviously losing a player of Pogba’s quality will be a blow but if we continue to not really use him to his strengths or build a midfield that gets the most out of him then he’s wasted. He’s looked his best in a midfield 3 both at Juve and France but Ole doesn’t want to play that way and with Bruno it’s understandable. That’s not Pogba’s fault but with the system Ole seems to want to play I think there are less talented but more suited midfielders.
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
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Bruno could go into the McT position there as well and have someone like Sancho starting centrally behind the strikers.
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what sunday illustrated is that playing 2 in midfield, with none of the forward players making a consistent attempt to drop deep to help in the build-up, is asking for trouble in a league when almost every other team plays at least 3 in midfield, and frequently more (as forward players drop in).
we certainly can't hope for much long-term joy playing the weird 4-2-4 we played on sunday (which works much better when pogba is nominally playing "left-wing", because he is really just playing as a 3rd, advanced, midfielder)
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If we can strike the right balance in midfield then we could do some good things this season. Can Ole do that with what he has? Time will tell.
Would dropping Bruno a bit deeper really hurt his numbers that much? I'm thinking if he can get into that inside right area on occasion there could well be more goals from crosses considering we have Ronaldo as well as Cavani to aim for now.
posted on 3/9/21
We sometimes see managers lose their jobs because they are too stubborn to change the set up of how they play.
Frank Lampard is a good example. Tuchel comes in and adapts to the strength of the players he had available.
OGS needs to do the same with us. 4-2-3-1 is not suited to the players we have.
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
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If we can strike the right balance in midfield then we could do some good things this season. Can Ole do that with what he has? Time will tell.
Would dropping Bruno a bit deeper really hurt his numbers that much? I'm thinking if he can get into that inside right area on occasion there could well be more goals from crosses considering we have Ronaldo as well as Cavani to aim for now.
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yes, i was thinking that ronaldo in the middle is a nice, juicy target for those dinked crosses that bruno can put in (mainly from the right)
in terms of his numbers, well, his goalscoring is solid, but it has slightly gone under the radar that bruno's creativity has cratered - 1 assist in his last 18 PL games - partly because he is increasingly playing like a second striker, looking to get in behind defenders (which he does well), but not getting too involved in bog standard build up play
it is an issue now, and i do have a slight fear that it might become a bigger issue when another goal-hungry forward joins us
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
We sometimes see managers lose their jobs because they are too stubborn to change the set up of how they play.
Frank Lampard is a good example. Tuchel comes in and adapts to the strength of the players he had available.
OGS needs to do the same with us. 4-2-3-1 is not suited to the players we have.
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I agree, but we need to be prepared to get less productivity from Bruno if we shift to a formation that doesn't require a 10. Pogba has always been a tactical conundrum, but having both Pogba and Bruno feels like a situation where whatever we do will involve some kind of trade-off. (The best pay of accommodating both is having Pogba on the left of the attack, but that creates yet another trade off by removing one of our rapid attacking players from that wide position.)
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
We sometimes see managers lose their jobs because they are too stubborn to change the set up of how they play.
Frank Lampard is a good example. Tuchel comes in and adapts to the strength of the players he had available.
OGS needs to do the same with us. 4-2-3-1 is not suited to the players we have.
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I agree, but we need to be prepared to get less productivity from Bruno if we shift to a formation that doesn't require a 10. Pogba has always been a tactical conundrum, but having both Pogba and Bruno feels like a situation where whatever we do will involve some kind of trade-off. (The best pay of accommodating both is having Pogba on the left of the attack, but that creates yet another trade off by removing one of our rapid attacking players from that wide position.)
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...or we could go 3-3-3-1...
posted on 3/9/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 3 hours, 4 minutes ago
If football was 12-a-side we'd be much better!
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If football was 12-a-side I could see Guardiola playing 8 in midfield and no one up front.
posted on 3/9/21
OP,
Three at the back with no wingbacks ?
posted on 3/9/21
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Bruno could go into the McT position there as well and have someone like Sancho starting centrally behind the strikers. We have loads of options up top and have a pretty good defence I'd say on paper too. If we could, at worst, have a workmanlike season from the midfield then we could do very well.
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Yeah and I think we could do. Our biggest issue has been drawing stupid games or even losing them. We've generally coped quite well against the big boys, particularly City. I actually wonder if Ole feels Varane adds enough overall that we're allowed to push higher up and not rely on typical put and out ball winners, just a midfield of players capable of doing a bit of everything and us having enough fire power to out score people anyway.
Game by game I think we have enough to beat pretty much any team, it's the ability to sustain that without dropping silly points. Of we go with a 3 and Bruno and Pogba are a touch deeper at times I don't see it as a huge problem, especially not if they manage the game well, communicate and get forward as and when it's appropriate. With a higher defensive line we will naturally be shifted further up the pitch and we just couldn't do this with the lack of pace we had for recoveries and cover.