And that is why…

comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
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Poch lost to Rennes, Potter got thrashed by City who we beat...the rose tinted lenses are fully on today after a 1-0 suckered punch loss.
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By that rationale, Nuno is a better manager than Pep. Is there anything worse than fans basing a managers credentials on one game? God, this sort of response is so tiresome.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nuno put out the right team. I guess he should have brought on our second striker seeing as Kane was having a stinker. Hmmm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Putting out the right team is only half the battle. What about patterns of play, inspiring a team to run through brick walls for you and general man management? i don't see any of that.

If you look at Crystal Palace under Vieira as an example. The football they're now playing is a breath of fresh air compared to the low block, low possession, counter attacking style under Hodgson. The difference is stark and they've deserved a lot more than the 9 points they've accumulated this season, only 6 behind us. That shows that we should be seeing Nuno's plan by now, the attacking intent put forward by Levy as the 'manifesto' of the club. It's nowhere to be seen. We're still lumping long balls up in the air and playing safe square passes at the back. There's no bravery on the ball and certainly no recognisable patterns of play. The only difference between this season and last is that Kane is wildly off his game, which I guess is understandable.

My point is we should be seeing progress by now and we're not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but still Palace weren't able to beat Newcastle. We beat them and fairly comfortably in the end.

We have seen some good from Nuno and some very poor from him. I think he's done ok given what he's had to work with. Ultimately though, the squad needs strengthening. The ownership in trying to improve the squad has been abysmal. This is really where the blame should lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. The past five years the owners have run this team into the ground. Whether it’s been from missing out on decent players because of incessant haggling, to some proper Alan Sugar levels of appalling recruitment to the whole Mourinho debacle. Nuno is just another symptom of that. But still having said all that we can at least hope for a manger who can limit and mitigate the worst tendencies and impulses of the owners like Poch did in his first four years. Sadly Nuno is not that man.

We tried to play on the front foot against Chelsea and we eventually fell apart like a pack of cards.
This team is physically weak and lacks any backbone. You only have to watch our second team on Thursday being bullied time and time again on the ball. This is our DNA and our main Achilles heel..

comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With practically the same players we were awful under Poch before he got the sack..unless he brings Verrati, Neymar and mbappe with him what’s going to change? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 seasons played away from home
No signings for the final 18 months of his reign
1 CL final
1 second place league finishes
2 third place league finish
1 fourth place league finish
1 fifth place league finish
1 League Cup final

Try and look at things more holistically rather than isolating his final 8 months or so. He wasn't backed by the board when he should have been. The players also tired of not having fresh blood through the door.

I don't need to justify it.

Look at where we are since his sacking. We just lost to Vitesse, a second rate Dutch team and he's now managing Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. That alone says enough about who was lucky to have who. To think we'd turn him down is just laughable but that's just my opinion.

comment by ABC Jelly (U22709)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nuno put out the right team. I guess he should have brought on our second striker seeing as Kane was having a stinker. Hmmm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Putting out the right team is only half the battle. What about patterns of play, inspiring a team to run through brick walls for you and general man management? i don't see any of that.

If you look at Crystal Palace under Vieira as an example. The football they're now playing is a breath of fresh air compared to the low block, low possession, counter attacking style under Hodgson. The difference is stark and they've deserved a lot more than the 9 points they've accumulated this season, only 6 behind us. That shows that we should be seeing Nuno's plan by now, the attacking intent put forward by Levy as the 'manifesto' of the club. It's nowhere to be seen. We're still lumping long balls up in the air and playing safe square passes at the back. There's no bravery on the ball and certainly no recognisable patterns of play. The only difference between this season and last is that Kane is wildly off his game, which I guess is understandable.

My point is we should be seeing progress by now and we're not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but still Palace weren't able to beat Newcastle. We beat them and fairly comfortably in the end.

We have seen some good from Nuno and some very poor from him. I think he's done ok given what he's had to work with. Ultimately though, the squad needs strengthening. The ownership in trying to improve the squad has been abysmal. This is really where the blame should lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. The past five years the owners have run this team into the ground. Whether it’s been from missing out on decent players because of incessant haggling, to some proper Alan Sugar levels of appalling recruitment to the whole Mourinho debacle. Nuno is just another symptom of that. But still having said all that we can at least hope for a manger who can limit and mitigate the worst tendencies and impulses of the owners like Poch did in his first four years. Sadly Nuno is not that man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're basing Palace's progress on the fact that they failed to beat Newcastle. Benteke, on another day, would have hit four. They're streets ahead of where they were last year, regardless of points accrued. They'll reap the benefits at some point. They played Arsenal off the park at the Emirates, a game they deserved to win. We got destroyed by Arsenal which is the same argument you're providing here. You just can't base it on one or two games.

I do agree though that the board are to blame. I think the issue lies solely with recruitment. We started to get that wrong in the final 2 years under Poch and haven't got it right still. If you keep buying the wrong players, your form is going to drop, whoever managers you. Then, when you want a change of manager, you look around and find that, because you've dropped so far down, you're no longer an attractive proposition for incoming managers and then players alike. It's a real snowball effect. We've got Nuno because we probably couldn't get anyone else. The only way this is fixed is by hoping that another Kane comes through or a Dele gets signed from a lower league team. Top players in their prime just don't want to join spurs. Why would they? We're a feckin mess.

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With practically the same players we were awful under Poch before he got the sack..unless he brings Verrati, Neymar and mbappe with him what’s going to change? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 seasons played away from home
No signings for the final 18 months of his reign
1 CL final
1 second place league finishes
2 third place league finish
1 fourth place league finish
1 fifth place league finish
1 League Cup final

Try and look at things more holistically rather than isolating his final 8 months or so. He wasn't backed by the board when he should have been. The players also tired of not having fresh blood through the door.

I don't need to justify it.

Look at where we are since his sacking. We just lost to Vitesse, a second rate Dutch team and he's now managing Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. That alone says enough about who was lucky to have who. To think we'd turn him down is just laughable but that's just my opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
When we had those few good years under Poch , we had a great team. Dembele, Vertonghen, Rose, Walker etc all in their prime..These top players soon whittled away and he was left with a pile of craaap which we have now. Most of the players who started today where here when he left and the football was god damn awful..

Poch is welcome to come back but he will need to rebuild the squad as he did his first one. With Levy at the helm not sure that is happening and he will get who he wants. Poch is not a miracle worker otherwise he would still be here.

Like I said bring Neymar, Veratti and Mbapp with him.

comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With practically the same players we were awful under Poch before he got the sack..unless he brings Verrati, Neymar and mbappe with him what’s going to change? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 seasons played away from home
No signings for the final 18 months of his reign
1 CL final
1 second place league finishes
2 third place league finish
1 fourth place league finish
1 fifth place league finish
1 League Cup final

Try and look at things more holistically rather than isolating his final 8 months or so. He wasn't backed by the board when he should have been. The players also tired of not having fresh blood through the door.

I don't need to justify it.

Look at where we are since his sacking. We just lost to Vitesse, a second rate Dutch team and he's now managing Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. That alone says enough about who was lucky to have who. To think we'd turn him down is just laughable but that's just my opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
When we had those few good years under Poch , we had a great team. Dembele, Vertonghen, Rose, Walker etc all in their prime..These top players soon whittled away and he was left with a pile of craaap which we have now. Most of the players who started today where here when he left and the football was god damn awful..

Poch is welcome to come back but he will need to rebuild the squad as he did his first one. With Levy at the helm not sure that is happening and he will get who he wants. Poch is not a miracle worker otherwise he would still be here.

Like I said bring Neymar, Veratti and Mbapp with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's funny. I could have sworn all of those players you've listed were playing under Villas Boas and Tom Sherwood when we weren't doing all that well. Funny how they only become great in a great team after Poch joined.

A good manager makes individual players greater than the sum of their parts. Poch turned all of those good players into great players. He didn't get lucky and stumble across a great squad. He moulded it. He coached it. It's always the same argument any Poch dissenter likes to use. "He had great players" or "he should have won something with that lot" are the usual criticisms. It's absurd. He squeezed every last drop out of that lot and almost got us the European Cup. Just let that sink in. We lost to Vitesse in the week and just over two years ago, we very nearly won the European Cup. He's the best manager we've had for probably 30-40 years but some fans don't want him back. Staggering. Have the last two years not taught us anything?

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With practically the same players we were awful under Poch before he got the sack..unless he brings Verrati, Neymar and mbappe with him what’s going to change? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 seasons played away from home
No signings for the final 18 months of his reign
1 CL final
1 second place league finishes
2 third place league finish
1 fourth place league finish
1 fifth place league finish
1 League Cup final

Try and look at things more holistically rather than isolating his final 8 months or so. He wasn't backed by the board when he should have been. The players also tired of not having fresh blood through the door.

I don't need to justify it.

Look at where we are since his sacking. We just lost to Vitesse, a second rate Dutch team and he's now managing Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. That alone says enough about who was lucky to have who. To think we'd turn him down is just laughable but that's just my opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
When we had those few good years under Poch , we had a great team. Dembele, Vertonghen, Rose, Walker etc all in their prime..These top players soon whittled away and he was left with a pile of craaap which we have now. Most of the players who started today where here when he left and the football was god damn awful..

Poch is welcome to come back but he will need to rebuild the squad as he did his first one. With Levy at the helm not sure that is happening and he will get who he wants. Poch is not a miracle worker otherwise he would still be here.

Like I said bring Neymar, Veratti and Mbapp with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's funny. I could have sworn all of those players you've listed were playing under Villas Boas and Tom Sherwood when we weren't doing all that well. Funny how they only become great in a great team after Poch joined.

A good manager makes individual players greater than the sum of their parts. Poch turned all of those good players into great players. He didn't get lucky and stumble across a great squad. He moulded it. He coached it. It's always the same argument any Poch dissenter likes to use. "He had great players" or "he should have won something with that lot" are the usual criticisms. It's absurd. He squeezed every last drop out of that lot and almost got us the European Cup. Just let that sink in. We lost to Vitesse in the week and just over two years ago, we very nearly won the European Cup. He's the best manager we've had for probably 30-40 years but some fans don't want him back. Staggering. Have the last two years not taught us anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why did Poch fail to pull us out of our slump. Am not knocking him , I loved him and sad he got the sack. My point is he will not get much more out of these players. They are just not good enough.

Managers are not the be and end all..They also need the right tools to enable them to play the way they want. Poch did not have the tools at the time and failed. Nothing I have see from this team suggests he will do better.

comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Spurs-To Dream is to Dare (U12707)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm hoping that the stars align at a certain point - Nuno's position becomes untenable just as Poch's PSG team slide out of the CL around April time. We sack Nuno, Poch becomes available. I know that won't be popular with some fans but I think his love for us could lure him back, as Alisdair Gold alluded to, and he'd be, by some margin, the best manager we could get. I'm not even sure Potter would want to trade what he's got at Brighton for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With practically the same players we were awful under Poch before he got the sack..unless he brings Verrati, Neymar and mbappe with him what’s going to change? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 seasons played away from home
No signings for the final 18 months of his reign
1 CL final
1 second place league finishes
2 third place league finish
1 fourth place league finish
1 fifth place league finish
1 League Cup final

Try and look at things more holistically rather than isolating his final 8 months or so. He wasn't backed by the board when he should have been. The players also tired of not having fresh blood through the door.

I don't need to justify it.

Look at where we are since his sacking. We just lost to Vitesse, a second rate Dutch team and he's now managing Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. That alone says enough about who was lucky to have who. To think we'd turn him down is just laughable but that's just my opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
When we had those few good years under Poch , we had a great team. Dembele, Vertonghen, Rose, Walker etc all in their prime..These top players soon whittled away and he was left with a pile of craaap which we have now. Most of the players who started today where here when he left and the football was god damn awful..

Poch is welcome to come back but he will need to rebuild the squad as he did his first one. With Levy at the helm not sure that is happening and he will get who he wants. Poch is not a miracle worker otherwise he would still be here.

Like I said bring Neymar, Veratti and Mbapp with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's funny. I could have sworn all of those players you've listed were playing under Villas Boas and Tom Sherwood when we weren't doing all that well. Funny how they only become great in a great team after Poch joined.

A good manager makes individual players greater than the sum of their parts. Poch turned all of those good players into great players. He didn't get lucky and stumble across a great squad. He moulded it. He coached it. It's always the same argument any Poch dissenter likes to use. "He had great players" or "he should have won something with that lot" are the usual criticisms. It's absurd. He squeezed every last drop out of that lot and almost got us the European Cup. Just let that sink in. We lost to Vitesse in the week and just over two years ago, we very nearly won the European Cup. He's the best manager we've had for probably 30-40 years but some fans don't want him back. Staggering. Have the last two years not taught us anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why did Poch fail to pull us out of our slump. Am not knocking him , I loved him and sad he got the sack. My point is he will not get much more out of these players. They are just not good enough.

Managers are not the be and end all..They also need the right tools to enable them to play the way they want. Poch did not have the tools at the time and failed. Nothing I have see from this team suggests he will do better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that even if Poch were to come back right now - this will take him a long time to fix. But as to your point about why he failed to turn things around - we tend to forget that not only was Poch dealing with underinvestment in the squad but spent almost two season negotiating a stadium move and having the team play at Wembley. His end of season press conferences in years three and four were indicators of his increasing frustration and by the end of it you could just tell he was psychologically spent. Don’t think you can blame him for how things ended. Essentially the best move for everyone at the time would have been him leaving after the CL final and us brining in a proper long term and progressive replacement rather than the farce that was Mourinho.

ENIC OUT.