I've seen a few comments indicating that Solskjaer took us backwards, that the last three years have been wasted etc. Far be it from me to defend Solskjaer - he ultimately failed as his three predecessors did - but I do think this whole idea of improving us, of cultural resets etc should be considered in the context of the whole post-Ferguson era.
Van Gaal - he obviously improved us when he came. We started to get points off the big teams, which looked very unlikely under Moyes, and got CL football in his first season. In his second, we laboured horribly in an attacking sense and missed out on the CL (albeit with an FA Cup). He also bought players he gave up on and I don't think things were that great for the next manager. Did he improve us overall?
Mourinho - we played some decent football in his first season. Sixth wasn't too bad given the two cup successes and consequent CL qualification. In his second season, some of the football really was dire - we finished second (and in the FA Cup) but in fairness never looked remotely like title winners, except perhaps in the first couple of games. Then he went into 'third-season mode' and we were a bit of a shambles, with a terrible atmosphere and a season that was probably unsaveable with him at the helm. Did he improve us? He got us to second, with a good points total, and a couple of trophies, but overall... ?
Solskjaer - the only post-SAF manager to get top-four finishes in each full season. We got to semis and a final but ultimately couldn't get over the line. He had to go this year though and for me it should have been after the Liverpool game.
The point is, all three of Van Gaal, Mourinho and Solskjaer did improve us from where we had been when they came in, and each can point to an achievement that at least one of the others couldn't. But they all seem to have hit a plateau - where they ran out of ideas, or where the players stoped believing in/understanding their ideas, and then things started to go backwards for them - sometimes quite dramatically, like this season for Ole. It's too simplistic just to say that x improved us but y took us backwards. We did progress under each - only to go backwards again.
Like many, I feel pretty pessimistic about United's future right now - a far cry from the pre-season and that opening day win against Leeds - but I still think it's harsh to imply that Ole has made us worse. Everyone knows we need a midfielder, maybe even two. I'd say a midfielder, a CB and possibly an RB could have us looking pretty good. But we need to get the right manager - and that has to be someone who can sort out the mentality issue at this club as much as anything else. Teams must love playing us.
The paradox of progress?
posted on 3/1/22
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem with each 'cultural reset' is that you've now got a manager trying to make a jigsaw with pieces from five different boxes, none of which match the picture he's trying to make.
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That’s why you need a director of football, who has a clear vision for the style of football and recruitment to be implemented not only today but for the next 5-10 years.
That way, when a manager is under performing, they’ll have a manager in mind who can work with the players.
posted on 3/1/22
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem with each 'cultural reset' is that you've now got a manager trying to make a jigsaw with pieces from five different boxes, none of which match the picture he's trying to make.
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That’s why you need a director of football, who has a clear vision for the style of football and recruitment to be implemented not only today but for the next 5-10 years.
That way, when a manager is under performing, they’ll have a manager in mind who can work with the players.
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Only took the club 7 years to recognise that. Baby steps.
posted on 3/1/22
RC. I totally agree with you. It takes time for a manager to really "get into" a new club, learn about his players and impose his tactics and philosophy. Ralf has been there a month! Most jobs give you at least a 3 month "probation period". The rumour was that SAF was one more bad result way from the sack after his first couple of seasons at Utd.
Ralf's managerial record is good and he will be strong enough in his beliefs to deal with the egos of some of the players and criticism from a few impatient fans.
No doubt it will be a case of "My way or the the highway" so it will be interesting to see how the players respond. Got to expect a transitional period and he has been brought in as an interim mechanic to try and fix a broken wheel so realistically a top four finish would hopefully set the groundwork for next season.
posted on 3/1/22
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 15 minutes ago
Who and what we sign isn’t the issue, Brighton, Wolves, Leicester, West Ham, Southampton all play with a recognisable style and look well drilled and have much lesser squads.
We need to stop saying position x or y will improve us, I used to think that way. The issue is clearly deep rooted within the culture of the club.
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This. Sooo many team are organised. Just us. Carrick had us organised for a while before he left.
posted on 3/1/22
Is football "over-thought" by managers nowadays? It used to seem so much simpler. "Score more than they do". Every move in a game gets analysed to death by commentators, TV pundits, armchair critics etc. The charismatic wayward geniuses are few. It is certainly drier and less entertaining than it was. Far less mud, blood and guts. Instead games in the top leagues are played on carpets by players wearing carpet slippers, so they keep falling over and getting more foot injuries, and kicking a balloon around.
It used to be said that Rugby was a hooligans' game played by gentlemen and football was a gentleman's game played by hooligans. Now football is a fairies' game played by cheats in many cases.
I am not talking about necessary precautionary care when a player is injured. It's feigning an injury to try to gain an advantage which is against the ethics of sport. I was against the use of VAR originally, believing in the authority of the referee on the pitch, but it's use is being honed now and we are getting there on that one. If you have to cheat to play a sport it's sad so I am OK with retrospective disciplinary action that is deemed necessary against a player.
posted on 4/1/22
Well in general a manager improving the side at least at first would often be the case. That's because the previous manager would've been sacked for taking the side to an unacceptable low point
posted on 4/1/22
Thew very fact that you still have Matic & Mata speaks volumes...let alone actually using them
posted on 4/1/22
comment by goadocwatson (U1016)
posted 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
Is football "over-thought" by managers nowadays? It used to seem so much simpler. "Score more than they do". Every move in a game gets analysed to death by commentators, TV pundits, armchair critics etc. The charismatic wayward geniuses are few. It is certainly drier and less entertaining than it was. Far less mud, blood and guts. Instead games in the top leagues are played on carpets by players wearing carpet slippers, so they keep falling over and getting more foot injuries, and kicking a balloon around.
It used to be said that Rugby was a hooligans' game played by gentlemen and football was a gentleman's game played by hooligans. Now football is a fairies' game played by cheats in many cases.
I am not talking about necessary precautionary care when a player is injured. It's feigning an injury to try to gain an advantage which is against the ethics of sport. I was against the use of VAR originally, believing in the authority of the referee on the pitch, but it's use is being honed now and we are getting there on that one. If you have to cheat to play a sport it's sad so I am OK with retrospective disciplinary action that is deemed necessary against a player.
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I disagree with this take as a Liverpool fan but as a United fan I can see where you're coming from.
posted on 4/1/22
For a big strong lad Cristiano Ronaldo falls over a bit too easily and one of the things he will be most remembered for is that wink after conning the ref.
Worst diver ever in English football was Lee One Pen at Man City. For those who are too young to remember him, he was not Asian!
posted on 4/1/22
Interest in EFL Trophy tonight...
Crewe v Rotherham - Crewe. One of my schoolmates supported them. Always struggled in the lower leagues and went through the embarrassment of the Gradi incident.
Harrogate v Carlisle - Carlisle. For an Aussie friend in Tasmania.
Hartlepool v Bolton - Bolton. For my Dear Departed and because I am against the hanging of innocent primates.
Oldham v Wigan - Wigan. For a very good friend I worked with for many years.
Charlton v MK Dons - MK Dons. Because of the circumstances surrounding their formation.
Sutton v Colchester - Sutton. Deserve the encouragement to complement their efforts in recent years.
That's probably the Kiss of Death to all of my selections!