...is a very very good manager. Had he come to United when Woodward gave him the 'Disneyland for adults' speech (my synapses feel dirty every time that phrase passes through my brain) we can surmise he'd have done much better than any of the other coaches we've employed post-Fergie.
But I suspect he'd have been a lot less successful than he has been at Liverpool. From the start at Liverpool it was clear that Klopp had great ideas and motivational skills, but it wasn't until he started to re-shape the squad with players that fit his plans that he turned them into a seriously good team. And it's here that having Klopp working in a well structured sporting operation was key. As far as I understand, Klopp didn't hand-pick players but leaned on the scouting and data skills of the backroom staff, led by Michael Edwards. This is not to disparage Klopp himself: it's the logical division of labour employed by most well organised FCs.
I've been reading a bit about LVG's time at United recently. He too was assured that managing our club was like Disneyland, initially took Woodward at face value and requested Neymar and Thomas Muller. No, it wasn't *that* kind of footballing Disneyland when you can actually sign the world's best players. Some players were a bit too big for us to swoop in and buy. But other LVG requests - such as Sadio Mane - turned out to be not big enough names and met with scepticism from the club leadership.
This isn't a sly piece of Van Gaal revisionism. He had his faults. But it's a window on what Klopp would have walked into had he come to United. We didn't have the slick moneyball operation to support his needs with well targeted players available at the right price. Despite our bags of gold and still very recent reputation of excellence, we didn't have the nous to get deals for truly elite players over the line. And we had a chinless banker who thought that Disneyland line was rather clever, actually, poking his nose into sporting decisions.
I truly believe Klopp chose Liverpool not just because it was a better cultural fit for him working with football people, but because he recognised that the project had a better chance of bringing him personal success than a move to United would - despite our superior spending power.
From what I've read, LVG was starting to modernise various aspects of the club in his time at United. Actually Moyes seemed to have ambitions of doing the same in terms of investing in data. Is it possible that while all of our post-Fergie managers have been poor, they were all made to look 10% worse than they really were thanks to wading through the treacly bulllshit of Woodward's vanity project? Whatever happens to Rangnick's coaching tenure, I dearly hope he makes a deep mark on how the club is run.
Jurgen Klopp?
posted on 14/1/22
Sadio Mane might have been the wrong example. Van Gaal also supposedly asked for Kante and Mahrez before they made their big moves.
posted on 14/1/22
comment by Picasso (U21397)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Picasso (U21397)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 18 minutes ago
Sadio Mane Didn’t want to play under LVG
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You think Mane would have turned down a move to United because he didn't want to play under LvG?
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Look it up , ..
Might stop you making a fool of yourself..
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sadio-mane-rejected-man-utd-22593695
There’s plenty more ….
Sorry you made yourself look like an idiot….it happens.
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Let me help you , what you do is type “ sadio mane turns down LVG” and …..there you go …..magic happens.
posted on 14/1/22
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posted on 14/1/22
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/1/22
I remember creating an article on the day our interest in Mane was reported from the reliable outlets, and it was met by sneers by posters. Stretty, unsurprisingly being one of them.
posted on 14/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 2 minutes ago
I agree, even if we hired Klopp, he would have failed because the football operation side of the club is completely broken, run by one man who thinks he knows it all. There's no real strategy with scouting, recruitment and no real vision. How this was allowed to continue to happen for 8 years beggars belief. Owners know nothing about football and they put in a man in charge who also knows nothing about football. Recipe for disaster as its proven.
Its like putting a Medical Doctor in charge of an Amazon Data Centre.
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Or a fulfilment centre manager in charge of an operating theatre. It's staggering that an organisation with revenues of United's level would appoint someone to essentially learn on the job. Amazing to think that the debt burden and all the hundreds of millions of dollars that the Glazers have extracted from the club might only be the second worst aspect of their ownership!
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Its ridiculous because yeah commercially the club is generating revenue and doing well, but that's a completely different side of the business that requires very different skills. That's Ed's expertise so just stick to that side.
Football side needs to be handled by someone that has experience as a director of football or something along those lines. But instead they hire like you said, someone learning on the job, but even then Ed probably still has the final say so he's just a puppet. For a club this size, its run worse than a small corner shop. Just need to look the ridiculous wages offered and fees paid for players, renewing contracts for players not needed, and more. Its so amateurish.
I'd love to see what the organisational chart looks like at this club.
posted on 14/1/22
We don't have an organisational chart. We never got round yo deciding who should do it.
posted on 14/1/22
Even now as we appear to be inching toward a more modern separation of corporate / sporting organisations, Murtough doesn't really have the skill set of a proper sporting director, as far as I can tell (nor, to be fair, the job description or authority of one). Much now rests on the humility of Arnold to devolve power where appropriate and of Murtough to listen to Rangnick, import expertise and resist the temptation to accumulate more responsibility than he is qualified to wield.
posted on 14/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 minutes ago
Even now as we appear to be inching toward a more modern separation of corporate / sporting organisations, Murtough doesn't really have the skill set of a proper sporting director, as far as I can tell (nor, to be fair, the job description or authority of one). Much now rests on the humility of Arnold to devolve power where appropriate and of Murtough to listen to Rangnick, import expertise and resist the temptation to accumulate more responsibility than he is qualified to wield.
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In a way, it could be a blessing in disguise that Ed messed up so badly on the football side of things. As you'd like to think it will serve as a major warning to Murtough to not overstretch himself.
posted on 15/1/22
comment by Terry Silver (U11781)
posted 17 hours, 1 minute ago
I remember creating an article on the day our interest in Mane was reported from the reliable outlets, and it was met by sneers by posters. Stretty, unsurprisingly being one of them.
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Yeah but you spent part of of the 80s coked up to the eyeballs and bullying a teenager over a karate tournament ...