Pele, the greatest ever footballer

comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 42 minutes ago
Add to that the fact that he appeared in (and scored in) a World Cup final at the tender age of just 17 years old. That is absolutely incredible and, despite modern technology and sports science, it's something that has not yet been repeated.
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True. But tbf Mbappe pretty much did that in 2018 and it’s harder for teenagers to start for big national teams nowadays because of the physical demands.

But one thing about Pele’s WC legacy is that in 58 & 70, they had a star studded cast, and they actually won it in 62 without him.

In fact, if Mbappe had won the recent final, his WC legacy would have superseded Pele’s imo already (could still happen down the line)
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How would Mbappe have superseded Pele, he would have won it twice to Pele`s three. And before we here all the nonsense about Pele was injured in 1962, he still played and scored in the first game, and played a part in the 2nd game. Modern players pick up world cup winners medals for not having set a foot on the pitch. Foyth got a winners medal this year for a 2 minute appearance over the whole Tournament. As it stands Mpappe has still only won the world cup once. He may win more. Who knows.

Pele played in four world cups and and won three winners medals. You cannot take that away from him.
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I think if Mbappe had won the Final, he’d have played in 2 WC Final wins (equal to the likes of Pele, Vava, Garrincha, Cafu, the Italians in the 30s etc.)

He has scored a record 4 career goals in WC Finals (surpassing Pele, Zidane, Vava, Hurst). Also he has 8 goals in the KO stages (more than Pele and tied most all-time with R9).

In total he has 12 goals in 14 WC games, exactly the same record as Pele.

So if he had won (moot point of course since Messi beat him), they’d be almost identical in record but I’d give Mbappe the edge since his France teams are not as loaded as Pele’s Brazil teams, plus the hatty in the Final.

But anyway, Messi beat him.

I understand what you’re saying about the 3 medals but to me I can’t give him much credit for ‘62 since he only fully played the 1st game.

comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 49 minutes ago
Very hard to compare modern players with players of that generation, simply because the ball that they played with was so much heavier and the pitches they played on wouldn't be used for anything above Sunday pub leagues now. Was Stanley Matthews better than his modern counterparts? I can only say that the team Pele played in in the 1970 WC was unlike anything I had seen before and Pele played a huge role in making that team tick but he wasn't their top scorer, that was Jair. Pele did things I had never seen on a football pitch.
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comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 42 minutes ago
Add to that the fact that he appeared in (and scored in) a World Cup final at the tender age of just 17 years old. That is absolutely incredible and, despite modern technology and sports science, it's something that has not yet been repeated.
————————————

True. But tbf Mbappe pretty much did that in 2018 and it’s harder for teenagers to start for big national teams nowadays because of the physical demands.

But one thing about Pele’s WC legacy is that in 58 & 70, they had a star studded cast, and they actually won it in 62 without him.

In fact, if Mbappe had won the recent final, his WC legacy would have superseded Pele’s imo already (could still happen down the line)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How would Mbappe have superseded Pele, he would have won it twice to Pele`s three. And before we here all the nonsense about Pele was injured in 1962, he still played and scored in the first game, and played a part in the 2nd game. Modern players pick up world cup winners medals for not having set a foot on the pitch. Foyth got a winners medal this year for a 2 minute appearance over the whole Tournament. As it stands Mpappe has still only won the world cup once. He may win more. Who knows.

Pele played in four world cups and and won three winners medals. You cannot take that away from him.
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I think if Mbappe had won the Final, he’d have played in 2 WC Final wins (equal to the likes of Pele, Vava, Garrincha, Cafu, the Italians in the 30s etc.)

He has scored a record 4 career goals in WC Finals (surpassing Pele, Zidane, Vava, Hurst). Also he has 8 goals in the KO stages (more than Pele and tied most all-time with R9).

In total he has 12 goals in 14 WC games, exactly the same record as Pele.

So if he had won (moot point of course since Messi beat him), they’d be almost identical in record but I’d give Mbappe the edge since his France teams are not as loaded as Pele’s Brazil teams, plus the hatty in the Final.

But anyway, Messi beat him.

I understand what you’re saying about the 3 medals but to me I can’t give him much credit for ‘62 since he only fully played the 1st game.
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Mbappe was anonymous until the final 10 minutes of the final. His hat-trick consisted of two penalties. Had he contributed more over the whole 90 minutes then France nay have won.

Mbappe was anonymous until the final 10 minutes of the final. His hat-trick consisted of two penalties. Had he contributed more over the whole 90 minutes then France nay have won.
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Fair point

comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 9 hours, 2 minutes ago
Very hard to compare modern players with players of that generation, simply because the ball that they played with was so much heavier and the pitches they played on wouldn't be used for anything above Sunday pub leagues now. Was Stanley Matthews better than his modern counterparts? I can only say that the team Pele played in in the 1970 WC was unlike anything I had seen before and Pele played a huge role in making that team tick but he wasn't their top scorer, that was Jair. Pele did things I had never seen on a football pitch.
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The ball was actually lighter than the modern game in dry conditions. It was only troublesome, and subsequently dangerous, when it was wet. The pitch was an issue, granted, but not the ball.

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 9 hours, 2 minutes ago
Very hard to compare modern players with players of that generation, simply because the ball that they played with was so much heavier and the pitches they played on wouldn't be used for anything above Sunday pub leagues now. Was Stanley Matthews better than his modern counterparts? I can only say that the team Pele played in in the 1970 WC was unlike anything I had seen before and Pele played a huge role in making that team tick but he wasn't their top scorer, that was Jair. Pele did things I had never seen on a football pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ball was actually lighter than the modern game in dry conditions. It was only troublesome, and subsequently dangerous, when it was wet. The pitch was an issue, granted, but not the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How was the ball lighter, it had a bladder inside, and was made if absolutely solid leather. It was twice the weight of modern balls, dry or wet.

Believe me I have kicked and headed both, dry and wet.

They play with a balloon today. The ball is as light as it has ever been in the history of the game.

comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 9 hours, 2 minutes ago
Very hard to compare modern players with players of that generation, simply because the ball that they played with was so much heavier and the pitches they played on wouldn't be used for anything above Sunday pub leagues now. Was Stanley Matthews better than his modern counterparts? I can only say that the team Pele played in in the 1970 WC was unlike anything I had seen before and Pele played a huge role in making that team tick but he wasn't their top scorer, that was Jair. Pele did things I had never seen on a football pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ball was actually lighter than the modern game in dry conditions. It was only troublesome, and subsequently dangerous, when it was wet. The pitch was an issue, granted, but not the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How was the ball lighter, it had a bladder inside, and was made if absolutely solid leather. It was twice the weight of modern balls, dry or wet.

Believe me I have kicked and headed both, dry and wet.

They play with a balloon today. The ball is as light as it has ever been in the history of the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just going by what Alan Shearer said in the documentary about dementia. He was surprised at how light it was when dry. He said if anything it's lighter than the balls he played with unless it was wet. I've got no other frame of reference but he 100% said that.

Well if Alan Shearer said it then it must be true.

Are sandy and SteveF the only people on here that make their own opinion from what they watch, rather than parroting the opinions of biased pundits?

comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 18 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 9 minutes ago
A true legend of the game and may he RIP, but IMO just the greatest of his era.
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Messi for you Spurtle? GOAT 🐐?
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For me Don, yes. He has the longevity, he has the natural talent, he has won everything. Unlike Pele he has done it in a much stronger league.

In terms of between him and Ronaldo, I always put it like this - Messi can do all that Ronaldo can, but Ronaldo can't do all that Messi can.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 55 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 18 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 9 minutes ago
A true legend of the game and may he RIP, but IMO just the greatest of his era.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Messi for you Spurtle? GOAT 🐐?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me Don, yes. He has the longevity, he has the natural talent, he has won everything. Unlike Pele he has done it in a much stronger league.

In terms of between him and Ronaldo, I always put it like this - Messi can do all that Ronaldo can, but Ronaldo can't do all that Messi can.
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The 2023 ballon d’Or will be a big moment.

It’ll likely be Messi’s last chance to win another, and of course now that he’s won the WC, he’s the favourite to pick up the award.

If he does, it’ll be his 8th, and would put him one clear of Pele who unofficially has 7 ballon d’Ors.

There’s also talk of a Super Ballon d’Or like the one they gave to Puskas in 1989.