Bruno

I feel that by staying at Utd, Bruno as a player has probably not developed as much as he could have. Playing around underperforming players has to be a drag, and you wouldn't be human if it didn't affect your own game.
That's why I feel it is easy to under-rate players like Bruno, and similar ones who have been in poor teams.
I don't feel he is as good as Robbo (very few are), but I think he is still a very good player - he has stood out so much in our team, others need to have a look at themselves

RBW, I already made the point about Robson's superior leadership qualities.

I guess my question is more about talent level. From hazy memories and clips I don't see the range of passing, or the technicality and imagination that has brought Bruno a lot more assists than Robbo. Robson was a more effective player at crashing the box - having more aggression and bravery, as well as quality. I can imagine that Bruno would have been a less effective player in Robson's era (when e.g. Hoddle had much less impact than his talent suggested he could), while Robbo would have stood out less in today's much more technical and tactically cagey sport. Of course, he'd be crucified by the discourse for his heavy drinking and volume of injuries, though it's quite likely he'd lead a very different lifestyle had he been brought up in today's game.

I certainly don't mean to diminish was a great and important player he was in our history. I suppose I'm just reflecting on how their reputations are affected by also seeing them through different prisms. In the 80s there was a stronger culture of supporting/idolising our players, a stronger sense of being part of the same community as them. At the same time, we had far less exposure to players representing other teams, let alone playing in other leagues. In those circumstances, it's easier for fans to imagine that their best player has few peers in the game. To some extent, it also impacts international reputation: the world didn't know as many players, rarely saw the best ones operating in various domestic leagues, and so the hero of Manchester United (the most culturally significant club in the country) and captain of England (which loomed larger in the 80s as a footballing idea) would have a higher profile than e.g. Oleg Blokhin from the USSR, despite the fact that he won the Ballon d'Or and lifted European trophies twice during Robson's career.

The Bruno conundrum.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. Bruno when he is on it is an asset to the team. When he isn't on it, which is much more often the last two seasons, he is a detriment to the team.

Lastly, there is no comparison between him and Robbo. When the chips were down Robbo was a player you could rely on to do the hard work and get you through games.

Bruno goes missing far too often and whines like a girl when things don't go his way.

Yes, Bruno's stats are very good, but his one bad stat (giving the ball away) causes so many issues.

Bruno goes missing far too often and whines like a girl when things don't go his way.

Yes, Bruno's stats are very good, but his one bad stat (giving the ball away) causes so many issues.

------------------------------------------------------------

Despite this 'going missing' charge, he has so many times been the one who rescued us when the rest of the team was playing terribly. He does love a moan, but isn't that just an objection about aesthetics? He's moaned aplenty in matches where he has played well and contributed to improving our result. Feels like that particular objection is akin to the old focus on Pogba/Lingard dabbing rather than focusing on their footballing deficiencies and inconsistencies. Finally, you refer to Bruno's giving the ball away stat... but I'd guess you're not referring to an actual statistic, because he compares pretty well in that respect to major players in his position such as De Bruyne.

but I'd guess you're not referring to an actual statistic, because he compares pretty well in that respect to major players in his position such as De Bruyne.

.......................

I doubt it. TAA is the only player I can find who has lost the ball in the PL this season.

You watch the same games as I do and must groan every time a promising attack comes to an abrupt end because Bruno loses it.

The issue for us is that we don't have any players capable of winning it back in the middle of the park.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
Bruno goes missing far too often and whines like a girl when things don't go his way.

Yes, Bruno's stats are very good, but his one bad stat (giving the ball away) causes so many issues.

------------------------------------------------------------

Despite this 'going missing' charge, he has so many times been the one who rescued us when the rest of the team was playing terribly. He does love a moan, but isn't that just an objection about aesthetics? He's moaned aplenty in matches where he has played well and contributed to improving our result. Feels like that particular objection is akin to the old focus on Pogba/Lingard dabbing rather than focusing on their footballing deficiencies and inconsistencies. Finally, you refer to Bruno's giving the ball away stat... but I'd guess you're not referring to an actual statistic, because he compares pretty well in that respect to major players in his position such as De Bruyne.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the biggest difference between Bruno and De Bruyne when this stat is subjected to the all important eye test is that Bruno gives the ball away in an incredibly amateurish way at times. De Bruyne doesn't... You'd trust De Bruyne to get himself out of trouble and be hard to dispossess with his running power.

So maybe the stats say they give the ball away about as much as each other, but it's clear that there's a big difference in *how* they give the ball away, and probably where and in what moment they give it away as well.

Without Bruno this season, we may well be in a relegation battle.

Hell no from me.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
Bruno goes missing far too often and whines like a girl when things don't go his way.

Yes, Bruno's stats are very good, but his one bad stat (giving the ball away) causes so many issues.

------------------------------------------------------------

Despite this 'going missing' charge, he has so many times been the one who rescued us when the rest of the team was playing terribly. He does love a moan, but isn't that just an objection about aesthetics? He's moaned aplenty in matches where he has played well and contributed to improving our result. Feels like that particular objection is akin to the old focus on Pogba/Lingard dabbing rather than focusing on their footballing deficiencies and inconsistencies. Finally, you refer to Bruno's giving the ball away stat... but I'd guess you're not referring to an actual statistic, because he compares pretty well in that respect to major players in his position such as De Bruyne.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the biggest difference between Bruno and De Bruyne when this stat is subjected to the all important eye test is that Bruno gives the ball away in an incredibly amateurish way at times. De Bruyne doesn't... You'd trust De Bruyne to get himself out of trouble and be hard to dispossess with his running power.

So maybe the stats say they give the ball away about as much as each other, but it's clear that there's a big difference in *how* they give the ball away, and probably where and in what moment they give it away as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

2 things:

1) Players make more silly mistakes when they are playing in badly disjointed teams. The more a team is on the back foot, the more likely an individual is to have a brain fart or miscontrol. If you take De Bruyne and Bruno back in time and switch the clubs they play for, I'm pretty sure Bruno's reputation grows a bit and De Bruyne's declines a bit.

2) I haven't seen the stats on this, but my subjective view is that Bruno has been a bit more conservative in his decision making, with less hero-ball, and fewer poor passes, since Amorim took over. I think Ten Hag's Best Transition Team in the World™ phase magnified that aspect of Bruno's game in an unflattering way, which was never as evident when he played for Portugal, and which I perceive to be less of an issue under Amorim's greater emphasis on retaining possession.

Agree with that, RR.

Bruno’s bigger problem rather than the reeetarded ways in which he can give it away, are his lack of dribbling ability and strength to hold onto the ball when carrying it. It’s probably a reason why he’s so quick to try and get rid of it when pressed as he just cannot keep hold of it like the very best playmakers.