I think Arsenal as it stands are a “Big Club". As a supporter what I want Arsenal to aim for are just the Premier League Title & the Champions League, of course these are hard to win but if you do it then it’s a lifetime memory.
Then there are the “Domestics" (FA Cup & League Cup) & “The Ropeys" (Europa League & Europa Conference).
The FA Cup has a huge history, but it has largely been supplanted by the Champions League, Big Clubs now put squad players into the early rounds of the FA Cup, it’s a “nice to have" but not at all important to win. Arsenal have already won it FOURTEEN times.
The League Cup is even less important (by a distance) & is just again another squad opportunity in the early rounds. It will probably cease to exist as UEFA keep increasing European games.
The “Ropeys" are probably even less important for Big Clubs because unlike the “Domestics" you have to already have failed to qualify for the Champions League. The Ropey League/Conference is like “Plate" competitions for teams that have already not succeeded.
Obviously all teams end up in these competitions at some point over the years & if you can win them they are again “nice to haves" - but a Big Club doesn’t look at them as success.
Newcastle are an interesting club because they are in transition to a Big Club having been a Small Club for so long. They had won nothing forever & this is why the League Cup was so important to them. If Newcastle win the League Cup again next season but do not qualify for the Champions League next season it will not be viewed as a successful season at all.
Small Clubs are very different & the “Domestics" (FA Cup & League Cup) & “The Ropeys" (Europa League & Europa Conference) ARE very important & that’s quite right. With Champions League failures no longer dropping into the “Ropey" League & the lack of depth in Europe the “Ropey" League has become a fantastic opportunity to all small clubs in the Premier League.
Teams like Crystal Palace need a “Black Swan" event to win the Premier League & are extremely unlikely to qualify for the Champions League - so winning the FA Cup is fantastic for them.
For this reason Crystal Palace as a small club finishing mid-table & winning the FA Cup is a “success" whereas Arsenal as a big club coming 2nd in the Premier League (qualifying for the Champions League again) & Semi-Final of the Champions League is not.
That is completely fair to say & is directly because of the Big Club/Small Club difference.
This is why the $puds "success"(?) coming just above relegation & winning the “Ropey" League all depends on how they view themselves - are they a Small Club or a Big Club ?
It depends if you think you’re a small club
posted 2 days, 14 hours ago
This was a rather longwinded way of saying you’re salty, OP
posted 2 days, 14 hours ago
As a fan I will always remember the Cup Winners Cup win in 94, the 87 League Cup win etc.
The term "big club" is pretty meaningless tbf.
Did Spurs have a better season than Arsenal? There are many ways of looking at it, but I wouldn't mind celebrating a trophy right now!! Would I take 17th and a Europa next season if offered now? No chance. Going forward would I rather be in Arsenals position or Spurs? Arsenal obviously.
Spurs will celebrate the Europa, and so they should. Whitstable Town are celebrating the FA Vase just as hard. Would I swap with Whitstable - no. Same with Spurs. Let them enjoy it...
posted 2 days, 11 hours ago
I think in the future it's going to be interesting to see how the Ropey League develops with no teams dropping in from the Champions League - the players salaries for Manchester United & Tottenham are TRIPLE that of Athletic Club & Eintracht Frankfurt (Chelsea's is QUADRUPLE that of Real Betis) !
Now I know it's a knockout tournament & money is not the only factor but in the medium/long term money talks so I think this is a good chance that the Premier League teams will be in an incredibly strong position in the Ropeys for a while.✔
posted 2 days, 5 hours ago
comment by GJ #COYS (U23170)
posted 11 hours, 18 minutes ago
You're only as big as the trophies you've won in the season that's just gone.
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Agreed!
So Man City are 5th (6th if Chelsea win the Conference next week) biggest cos they hold the Community Shield
posted 2 days, 3 hours ago
The league comes before anything, all the rest are just gravy.
Don't get me wrong, I have always loved LFC winning a European cup, but I would give them up for a league.
The Great Bill Shankly could not have said it better, the league is our bread and butter.
posted 2 days, 3 hours ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 13 minutes ago
The league comes before anything, all the rest are just gravy.
Don't get me wrong, I have always loved LFC winning a European cup, but I would give them up for a league.
The Great Bill Shankly could not have said it better, the league is our bread and butter.
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So only having won 2 in over a third of a century says what about the club?
posted 2 days, 3 hours ago
comment by newWAYNEorder nWo nDubz (U23264)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 13 minutes ago
The league comes before anything, all the rest are just gravy.
Don't get me wrong, I have always loved LFC winning a European cup, but I would give them up for a league.
The Great Bill Shankly could not have said it better, the league is our bread and butter.
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So only having won 2 in over a third of a century says what about the club?
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What are you trying to say ?
All I am saying is the league is the pinnacle. Everything else is a bonus.
The competition you start in every year is the league, if you don't win it, then its a failure.
If you want to say LFC have failed more often than not, then I will not disagree with you.
posted 2 days, 2 hours ago
I doubt many arsenal fans would take finishing 17th and winning EL at the start of a season if offered. For a bigger team, Just finishing that low is such a bad indicator of the state the club is in. It’s not like you finished just outside CL places and won it.
If arteta doesn’t win things and just finishes top 4 all the time, then eventually we’d have to look elsewhere. But I’d rather move on from him while being a strong contender in the league, as opposed to being 17th but with a Europa
posted 2 days, 1 hour ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
The league comes before anything, all the rest are just gravy.
Don't get me wrong, I have always loved LFC winning a European cup, but I would give them up for a league.
The Great Bill Shankly could not have said it better, the league is our bread and butter.
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Bread and butter is boring,
posted 2 days ago
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