MrMortimer - absolutely correct, where were you during the Suarez debate? That was basically the case for context over semantics, and I couldn't agree more.
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 2 minutes ago
“I have never argued against the perception of big team bias. Again you are attributing comments and positions to me that I have never written or indicated.”
You argued against any form of bias towards United as a myth. Are United not a big team?
“So grow up people and stop with the silly arguments...
ok mr ABU....”
Those two lines go so well together.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly there is a big differance between the utd bias myth and big team bias myth.
Both are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words "laughable"
heres laughing at those people....
I've stuck with the same opinion throughout and I've had no intelligent opposition to it and I don't believe there is any. Simply supplying the number of penalties given, does not disprove the 'myth'. Other factors have to be taken into account. This is not an easy thing to do, especially in this case.
In fact this is why you have things called 'myth' and not lie because whilst some might believe the 'myth' is totally stupid, it is difficult to disprove it and also to prove it and that's why it's a myth.
"That's right, blank it out. Attribute disgusting comments to a person and then just a casual "if you say so". It's your type that have people thinking this about me, attributing comments to me that I didn't make, just to point score and I find it disgusting."
What do you want me to say? I don't believe you but I've let it go.
"oth are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words "laughable""
Prove it.
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 37 seconds ago
"That's right, blank it out. Attribute disgusting comments to a person and then just a casual "if you say so". It's your type that have people thinking this about me, attributing comments to me that I didn't make, just to point score and I find it disgusting."
What do you want me to say? I don't believe you but I've let it go.
------------------------------------
in all honestly I'd what you to say that you were wrong, that you lied about me and put the impression of me being a racist on the internet for people to read and that you got it all wrong and apologise but of course you won't do that, so I'll settle for you, letting it go.
“Firstly there is a big differance between the utd bias myth and big team bias myth. “
Well not really – if United are a Big Team then they will get the benefit of the big team bias. If you accept there is a big team bias, then presumably if United are the biggest big team they will get the biggest benefit of that… so not such a big difference at all.
“Both are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words laughable”
What do you think about the argument that decisions even themselves out over the course of the season? Do you believe that to be true or is that another myth? Would be genuinely interested to hear what you think.
In all fairness Post Nearly Man – if you have misquoted him you should apologise. Accusing someone of being racist is a massive stain on their character – you should be sure before posting.
"Would be genuinely interested to hear what you think."
Why?
No need for any insults here guys - let's keep it to just debate yeah?
In all fairness Post Nearly Man seemed sensible in his posts so sure it was just a mistake.
TOOR -I want to see if he believes in the myth that it all evens itself out... if he does, why does he since it's just a myth
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 17 seconds ago
No need for any insults here guys - let's keep it to just debate yeah?
In all fairness Post Nearly Man seemed sensible in his posts so sure it was just a mistake.
---------------------------------------------
Yes, he was not subscribing to the ABU nonsense, it's such a shame, his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 14 seconds ago
TOOR -I want to see if he believes in the myth that it all evens itself out... if he does, why does he since it's just a myth
-------------------------------
I don't think he's the type who will debate the subject, he's stuck to everybody being "ABU". He won't take anything on board or accept a differing opinion and that has been evidenced throughout the comment process.
TOOR - have faith... they'll get it eventually!
@ mortimer
who do you dislike more fergie or utd or both equally ?
of course taken literally the statement is silly. Only a fool or someone with an agenda would take what fergie is saying literally. People know what fergie means by that statement...
Not in the same ball park of giving credibility to the real existance of big team bias and in turn a utd bias.....
"People know what fergie means by that statement..."
You've got me intrigued now. What does Fergie mean with that statement?
I'm beginning to think this guy isn't actually a United fan but somebody trying to make United fans look stupid.
“who do you dislike more fergie or utd or both equally ?”
I don’t dislike Fergie particularly… I think he says some stupid things. His “Typical Germans” comment was one of the worst for me but then again all managers say silly things sometimes.
As for United I don’t dislike the club particularly, although some of the people who claim to be its fans are tiresome. Rangers and Celtic are said to have some idiot elements in its fanbase but if this board is anything to go on I think we’re both outdone considerably!
“of course taken literally the statement is silly. Only a fool or someone with an agenda would take what fergie is saying literally. People know what fergie means by that statement...”
It’s not Fergie who said this statement first by the way. Does it even itself out? Not down to the individual decision count – but do you think in principle it evens itself out and clubs at the bottom end of the table get the same amount that go for them?
“Not in the same ball park of giving credibility to the real existance of big team bias and in turn a utd bias.....”
I am sorry I have trudged through your unique interpretation of English spelling and grammar but could you clarify what you mean on this point?
his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
TOOR, 2 things - firstly I haven't engaged with you in the preceding comments in this thread, I don't know (or care) what your position is, so I'm hardly likely to put something forward that either contradicts a point I've made before or supports yours. I simply wrote a statement as part of a genial discussion with MrMortimer that for some bizarre reason you've latched on to as proving something that I'm not even sure I know what it is. Very odd.
Secondly, that's how I remember it (the Suarez debate). You were part of that debate that included the comment, I remember it as you. If it wasn't you then apologies. You can surely tell me who it actually was if not yourself? You were a pretty intransigent figure throughout the months spent on this topic, you were on just about every thread so I'm sure it rings a bell.
"I don’t dislike Fergie particularly"
"As for United I don’t dislike the club particularly"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
now we are making progress......
I am slowly dragging the truth from you. Now why dont you be a man and admit it and say that you dont like UTD. As for you opinion on UTD fans that is quite evident in the patronising and condesending manner in which you debate with them and as for outdoing rangers fans in idiocy I am sure you will find quite a few people from the city of manchester who would disagree with you on that one....
Any way now you are coming to terms with your inner ABU maybe you will recognise how this is clouding your opinion on the existance of a UTD myth....
Dont be a donut like TOOR. The perception that the bigger teams always get the decisions is really just that a perception. Its a myth like the utd myth with no substance to it.
You do realise that dont you. To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable"
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 14 hours, 59 minutes ago
his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
TOOR, 2 things - firstly I haven't engaged with you in the preceding comments in this thread, I don't know (or care) what your position is, so I'm hardly likely to put something forward that either contradicts a point I've made before or supports yours. I simply wrote a statement as part of a genial discussion with MrMortimer that for some bizarre reason you've latched on to as proving something that I'm not even sure I know what it is. Very odd.
---------------------------------------------------------
Simply with one of your points, the one I've quoted in the few comments previous, it proves the point that Mr Mortimer, Ripley and myself had made in the beginning and no United fan could agree with it. So I thought I'd highlight the fact that you agree.
"Secondly, that's how I remember it (the Suarez debate). You were part of that debate that included the comment, I remember it as you. If it wasn't you then apologies. You can surely tell me who it actually was if not yourself? You were a pretty intransigent figure throughout the months spent on this topic, you were on just about every thread so I'm sure it rings a bell."
No no, you have the right person, the problem is, the comments which I made, are wrong. I repeatedly tried to tell you this and the only few who latched on, that I did not say what you attributed to me but nobody would listen due to the outrage of what I was deemed to have said.
I was asked many times, "so you think it is ok to walk into a bar and ask, "hey black man, can I get a beer?"
Many times my answer was, "no, I don't think it is ok but it is not racial abuse".
The Post Nearly Man – just because he defended Suarez that doesn’t mean he came out with that comment. You should have really checked before posting.
I think the Suarez issue and the one discussed here have a common thread though – in that people were using something as proof when the actual facts of the case didn’t necessarily back it up. Also the role of the media – who jumped on the moral high horse because it was a race issue rather than actually look at the facts of what happened. The same with the myth issue – where in this instance a member of the media has quoted something as proof that the myth is true when in fact his statistics prove absolutely nothing of the sort.
“now we are making progress......”
How are we making progress? My position has been completely the same throughout…
“I am slowly dragging the truth from you. Now why dont you be a man and admit it and say that you dont like UTD.”
My being a man won’t be affected by whether I like United or not. As for my personal preference on United… you can believe that I am anti-United if you want to – but the truth is I am a neutral. I support another team in a completely different league so out of everyone who has commented I am probably the least affected by personal prejudice on the matter… I have taken your points as standing aside from your favour of United, just as I have taken everyone’s points evenly – regardless of the team they support. If you can’t accept the fact that some people can be neutral then that is a shame and perhaps explains why you do not understand the point being made.
At no point was this an anti-United discussion. At no point did I say the myth was true. The point made from the very start was that the stats given do not prove the myth false – you took exception to that for some reason.
“As for you opinion on UTD fans that is quite evident in the patronising and condesending manner in which you debate with them”
I have debated rationally and reasonably… I haven’t resorted to cheap insults and have always had the respect to actually read the posts – something that wasn’t afforded to me in return. Enough said I think.
“Any way now you are coming to terms with your inner ABU maybe you will recognise how this is clouding your opinion on the existance of a UTD myth....”
I’m not at all. However much you want it to be true won’t change the fact that I’m not.
“To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable"”
Surely to reject a theory apriori without giving it due care and attention is silly.
Congrats TOOR for keeping this going.
"Dont be a donut like TOOR. The perception that the bigger teams always get the decisions is really just that a perception. Its a myth like the utd myth with no substance to it.
You do realise that dont you. To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable""
-----------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I don't think it is a 'myth'. I think it's common knowledge. However what i do believe is a 'myth' is why the bigger teams get them.
There are many factors but certainly as I think TPNM said earlier, having more of the ball and attacking more, is likely to draw more fouls.
However this again means more fouls were given, not that the bigger clubs get more favourable decisions.
Sign in if you want to comment
The myth about pens at Old Trafford
Page 19 of 25
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posted on 2/4/12
MrMortimer - absolutely correct, where were you during the Suarez debate? That was basically the case for context over semantics, and I couldn't agree more.
posted on 2/4/12
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 2 minutes ago
“I have never argued against the perception of big team bias. Again you are attributing comments and positions to me that I have never written or indicated.”
You argued against any form of bias towards United as a myth. Are United not a big team?
“So grow up people and stop with the silly arguments...
ok mr ABU....”
Those two lines go so well together.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly there is a big differance between the utd bias myth and big team bias myth.
Both are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words "laughable"
heres laughing at those people....
posted on 2/4/12
I've stuck with the same opinion throughout and I've had no intelligent opposition to it and I don't believe there is any. Simply supplying the number of penalties given, does not disprove the 'myth'. Other factors have to be taken into account. This is not an easy thing to do, especially in this case.
In fact this is why you have things called 'myth' and not lie because whilst some might believe the 'myth' is totally stupid, it is difficult to disprove it and also to prove it and that's why it's a myth.
posted on 2/4/12
"That's right, blank it out. Attribute disgusting comments to a person and then just a casual "if you say so". It's your type that have people thinking this about me, attributing comments to me that I didn't make, just to point score and I find it disgusting."
What do you want me to say? I don't believe you but I've let it go.
posted on 2/4/12
"oth are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words "laughable""
Prove it.
posted on 2/4/12
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 37 seconds ago
"That's right, blank it out. Attribute disgusting comments to a person and then just a casual "if you say so". It's your type that have people thinking this about me, attributing comments to me that I didn't make, just to point score and I find it disgusting."
What do you want me to say? I don't believe you but I've let it go.
------------------------------------
in all honestly I'd what you to say that you were wrong, that you lied about me and put the impression of me being a racist on the internet for people to read and that you got it all wrong and apologise but of course you won't do that, so I'll settle for you, letting it go.
posted on 2/4/12
“Firstly there is a big differance between the utd bias myth and big team bias myth. “
Well not really – if United are a Big Team then they will get the benefit of the big team bias. If you accept there is a big team bias, then presumably if United are the biggest big team they will get the biggest benefit of that… so not such a big difference at all.
“Both are a crock of shizzaz and anyone who give credance that these arguments hold water are in your words laughable”
What do you think about the argument that decisions even themselves out over the course of the season? Do you believe that to be true or is that another myth? Would be genuinely interested to hear what you think.
posted on 2/4/12
In all fairness Post Nearly Man – if you have misquoted him you should apologise. Accusing someone of being racist is a massive stain on their character – you should be sure before posting.
posted on 2/4/12
"Would be genuinely interested to hear what you think."
Why?
posted on 2/4/12
No need for any insults here guys - let's keep it to just debate yeah?
In all fairness Post Nearly Man seemed sensible in his posts so sure it was just a mistake.
posted on 2/4/12
TOOR -I want to see if he believes in the myth that it all evens itself out... if he does, why does he since it's just a myth
posted on 2/4/12
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 17 seconds ago
No need for any insults here guys - let's keep it to just debate yeah?
In all fairness Post Nearly Man seemed sensible in his posts so sure it was just a mistake.
---------------------------------------------
Yes, he was not subscribing to the ABU nonsense, it's such a shame, his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
posted on 2/4/12
comment by MrMortimer (U8234)
posted 14 seconds ago
TOOR -I want to see if he believes in the myth that it all evens itself out... if he does, why does he since it's just a myth
-------------------------------
I don't think he's the type who will debate the subject, he's stuck to everybody being "ABU". He won't take anything on board or accept a differing opinion and that has been evidenced throughout the comment process.
posted on 2/4/12
TOOR - have faith... they'll get it eventually!
posted on 2/4/12
@ mortimer
who do you dislike more fergie or utd or both equally ?
of course taken literally the statement is silly. Only a fool or someone with an agenda would take what fergie is saying literally. People know what fergie means by that statement...
Not in the same ball park of giving credibility to the real existance of big team bias and in turn a utd bias.....
posted on 2/4/12
"People know what fergie means by that statement..."
You've got me intrigued now. What does Fergie mean with that statement?
posted on 2/4/12
I'm beginning to think this guy isn't actually a United fan but somebody trying to make United fans look stupid.
posted on 2/4/12
“who do you dislike more fergie or utd or both equally ?”
I don’t dislike Fergie particularly… I think he says some stupid things. His “Typical Germans” comment was one of the worst for me but then again all managers say silly things sometimes.
As for United I don’t dislike the club particularly, although some of the people who claim to be its fans are tiresome. Rangers and Celtic are said to have some idiot elements in its fanbase but if this board is anything to go on I think we’re both outdone considerably!
“of course taken literally the statement is silly. Only a fool or someone with an agenda would take what fergie is saying literally. People know what fergie means by that statement...”
It’s not Fergie who said this statement first by the way. Does it even itself out? Not down to the individual decision count – but do you think in principle it evens itself out and clubs at the bottom end of the table get the same amount that go for them?
“Not in the same ball park of giving credibility to the real existance of big team bias and in turn a utd bias.....”
I am sorry I have trudged through your unique interpretation of English spelling and grammar but could you clarify what you mean on this point?
posted on 2/4/12
his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
TOOR, 2 things - firstly I haven't engaged with you in the preceding comments in this thread, I don't know (or care) what your position is, so I'm hardly likely to put something forward that either contradicts a point I've made before or supports yours. I simply wrote a statement as part of a genial discussion with MrMortimer that for some bizarre reason you've latched on to as proving something that I'm not even sure I know what it is. Very odd.
Secondly, that's how I remember it (the Suarez debate). You were part of that debate that included the comment, I remember it as you. If it wasn't you then apologies. You can surely tell me who it actually was if not yourself? You were a pretty intransigent figure throughout the months spent on this topic, you were on just about every thread so I'm sure it rings a bell.
posted on 2/4/12
"I don’t dislike Fergie particularly"
"As for United I don’t dislike the club particularly"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
now we are making progress......
I am slowly dragging the truth from you. Now why dont you be a man and admit it and say that you dont like UTD. As for you opinion on UTD fans that is quite evident in the patronising and condesending manner in which you debate with them and as for outdoing rangers fans in idiocy I am sure you will find quite a few people from the city of manchester who would disagree with you on that one....
Any way now you are coming to terms with your inner ABU maybe you will recognise how this is clouding your opinion on the existance of a UTD myth....
Dont be a donut like TOOR. The perception that the bigger teams always get the decisions is really just that a perception. Its a myth like the utd myth with no substance to it.
You do realise that dont you. To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable"
posted on 3/4/12
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 14 hours, 59 minutes ago
his character changed when he was shown that he actually agreed with what we've been saying throughout - "we never looked at the decisions they didn't get."
TOOR, 2 things - firstly I haven't engaged with you in the preceding comments in this thread, I don't know (or care) what your position is, so I'm hardly likely to put something forward that either contradicts a point I've made before or supports yours. I simply wrote a statement as part of a genial discussion with MrMortimer that for some bizarre reason you've latched on to as proving something that I'm not even sure I know what it is. Very odd.
---------------------------------------------------------
Simply with one of your points, the one I've quoted in the few comments previous, it proves the point that Mr Mortimer, Ripley and myself had made in the beginning and no United fan could agree with it. So I thought I'd highlight the fact that you agree.
"Secondly, that's how I remember it (the Suarez debate). You were part of that debate that included the comment, I remember it as you. If it wasn't you then apologies. You can surely tell me who it actually was if not yourself? You were a pretty intransigent figure throughout the months spent on this topic, you were on just about every thread so I'm sure it rings a bell."
No no, you have the right person, the problem is, the comments which I made, are wrong. I repeatedly tried to tell you this and the only few who latched on, that I did not say what you attributed to me but nobody would listen due to the outrage of what I was deemed to have said.
I was asked many times, "so you think it is ok to walk into a bar and ask, "hey black man, can I get a beer?"
Many times my answer was, "no, I don't think it is ok but it is not racial abuse".
posted on 3/4/12
The Post Nearly Man – just because he defended Suarez that doesn’t mean he came out with that comment. You should have really checked before posting.
I think the Suarez issue and the one discussed here have a common thread though – in that people were using something as proof when the actual facts of the case didn’t necessarily back it up. Also the role of the media – who jumped on the moral high horse because it was a race issue rather than actually look at the facts of what happened. The same with the myth issue – where in this instance a member of the media has quoted something as proof that the myth is true when in fact his statistics prove absolutely nothing of the sort.
posted on 3/4/12
“now we are making progress......”
How are we making progress? My position has been completely the same throughout…
“I am slowly dragging the truth from you. Now why dont you be a man and admit it and say that you dont like UTD.”
My being a man won’t be affected by whether I like United or not. As for my personal preference on United… you can believe that I am anti-United if you want to – but the truth is I am a neutral. I support another team in a completely different league so out of everyone who has commented I am probably the least affected by personal prejudice on the matter… I have taken your points as standing aside from your favour of United, just as I have taken everyone’s points evenly – regardless of the team they support. If you can’t accept the fact that some people can be neutral then that is a shame and perhaps explains why you do not understand the point being made.
At no point was this an anti-United discussion. At no point did I say the myth was true. The point made from the very start was that the stats given do not prove the myth false – you took exception to that for some reason.
“As for you opinion on UTD fans that is quite evident in the patronising and condesending manner in which you debate with them”
I have debated rationally and reasonably… I haven’t resorted to cheap insults and have always had the respect to actually read the posts – something that wasn’t afforded to me in return. Enough said I think.
“Any way now you are coming to terms with your inner ABU maybe you will recognise how this is clouding your opinion on the existance of a UTD myth....”
I’m not at all. However much you want it to be true won’t change the fact that I’m not.
“To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable"”
Surely to reject a theory apriori without giving it due care and attention is silly.
posted on 3/4/12
Congrats TOOR for keeping this going.
posted on 3/4/12
"Dont be a donut like TOOR. The perception that the bigger teams always get the decisions is really just that a perception. Its a myth like the utd myth with no substance to it.
You do realise that dont you. To beleive even in the possibility of it is "laughable""
-----------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I don't think it is a 'myth'. I think it's common knowledge. However what i do believe is a 'myth' is why the bigger teams get them.
There are many factors but certainly as I think TPNM said earlier, having more of the ball and attacking more, is likely to draw more fouls.
However this again means more fouls were given, not that the bigger clubs get more favourable decisions.
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