G_A show me in the regulations where it states a car must return to the pits under its own power after the race, Article 6.6.2 only covers what must happen after quali and therefore is not applicable to the end of the race. If you can find me a similar regulation for post race I will conceed you have a point but there is none that I know of!
Hamilton and Mclaren broke a regulation and in the stewards eyes did this to gain an advantage and therefore were punished, what is so difficult to understand about that?
hazsa - would you like to explain what about my comment was moronic or are you just throwing insults as you have nothing intelligible to add to the debate?
MadManc, the point is not that they were penalised, but the severity of the penalty. I've heard of 5 place grid drops and rarely 10 place grid drops, but to be expelled and therefore relegated from pole to last is suspicious.
Already made every point I have to make earlier in the thread.
yes infact i do, it's not about driver allegiances though. F1 is a team game and Hamilton's TEAM got rightly punished. Hamilton's gripe should be with his team not with the FIA.
I feel i have over used the word team to emphasise my point
Comment deleted by Article Creator
truey, I agree it was severe and stated earlier I thought it would have been a 5 place grid penalty.
I have also stated that I feel the stewards decision was influenced by 1) Mclaren being reprimanded about this before and 2) the stewards believing mclaren tried to deceive the stewards by having Hamilton stop on Track
MadManc so you saying then that the purpose of testing fuels after the races was a hobby? Infact if so be it that the rules doesn't state it, more idiots of the rules then. If under fueling a car during qualifying give you great advantage over 1 lap, imagine what it might give the real race. Shouldn't it be sensible then that the same rules apply to race and qualifying? For example, Vettel could have easily run out of fuel and Kimi would have pass him at Bahrain.
Did Mclaren break the rules? Yes. Did Lewis break the rules? No, he doesn't fill up his won tank. Does he deserve a penalty? Possibly. Demoted back of the grid? Never heard that before, it's a new one.
Support of Lewis Hamilton seems to upset certain individuals for reasons that escapes me (not really).
Lewis was excluded from qualifying and that means that he should not be allowed to race. Same as the 107% rule.
The stewards seem to be making things up as they go along.
WTCBU
so you are wanting an even harsher penalty. WOW!!
No I am saying that there is no requirement for a car to return to the pits under its own power after a race as there is after quali and therefore stopping out on track after the race is nor comparable.
I'm not sure your maths is up to scratch on giving a greater advantage in the race, having 2 laps of fuel when everyone else has 3 will give you a much greater advantage than having 66 laps of fuel when everyone else has 67.
Yes it may be an oversight to not have the same rules for quali as the race but the teams all know this and to fall foul of the rules is their own fault.
Finally I have already stated the penalty is harsh on Hamilton but to claim its racism or a conspiracy is simply spurious. remember that Mclaren have been reprimanded on this issue before so it is not like it is an isolated incident!
WTCBU - support of Hamilton does not bother me, the ridiculous conspiracy theories that get trotted out when ever something doesn't go Hamilton's way do bother me though (i.e. the suggestion that this penalty may be racial motivated!)
JUG
No I am just ridiculing the demands of Hamilton hating football supporters regarding their outrage at Lewis Hamilton getting pole.
Who cares even if the guy isn't allowed to race. Not like it's important when the higher powers can just render his results through other dubious means. Like i said, tell the guy, blacks are not allowed to be in Formula 1 and we can all move on. Simple as that.
Anyways, as for McLaren, their managment has become the laughing stock of Formula 1. Are the even rivals to the likes of Red Bull? Why should Vettle even bother to qualify for podium when there is a certainty of McLaren messing Lewis' race with either this blunder of in the pits.
i do not hate Hamilton and don't assume i do you classless idiot
I'm not sure your maths is up to scratch on giving a greater advantage in the race, having 2 laps of fuel when everyone else has 3 will give you a much greater advantage than having 66 laps of fuel when everyone else has 67
--------------------------------------------
Thats's where you are wrong again as seen in Vettle's case and me pointing out he could have run out of fuel at the end and Kimi would have pass him. Exactly the same dubious act with race distance the only difference and one was punished and the other well..... He is not black. You can deny all you want but the consistency of bias against Lewis should make this bea valid question of whether he is racially victimised.
JUG
You may not hate Hamilton but you do not seem to have any interest in F1 either.
Why would you support that punishment if you understood the sport or the history of the sport.
Your contribution to the topic seems to me as being more idiotic and classless than mine.
Excuse me, i have posted on this board before and just because my name is football orientated does not mean i don't enjoy other sports.
They tried to cheat the FIA and other teams. The punishment befits the crime. Is it just me who is seeing this. Take off your rose tinted spectacles mate.
Another thing to consider in the fuel in quali vs fuel in race debate is that the drivers can alter the rate at which the car consumes fuel.
Fuel tanks on F1 cars are not big enough for a driver to go flat out for the entire race. Therefore there will be times when a driver will hang back and try to manage his fuel, choosing a configuration that allows it.
In qualifying, every single driver has to go flat out and set their engines to the highest rate of fuel consumption to get the most horse-power, allowing them to set the fastest possible time.
If the car is underfuelled in qualifying, it is an advantage as the car is lighter and the driver only needs 1 lap to set a time.
If the car is underfuelled in the race, it actually disadvantages the driver as they can't afford to push as hard as their rivals in some parts of the race.
JustAnotherGunner, "they tried to cheat the other teams".
You don't really know that. The margins for fuelling correctly are so tiny. It could have been an error. We just don't know.
Vettel had enough fuel to comply with the regulations, Hamilton did not. That is why Hamilton was given a penalty not because Hamilton is black.
well im guessing, with the severity of the punishment, thats how the fia saw it
JUG
Should Lewis Hamilton have his super licence removed?
Why not?
Broke the rules didn't he?
Vettel had enough fuel to comply with the regulations, Hamilton did not. That is why Hamilton was given a penalty not because Hamilton is black.
well said
The whole thing is bizarre. Ferrari were nowhere near Hamilton. Red Bull were nowhere near Hamilton. Hamilton's nearest rival for pole was flipping Maldonado!!!
Why would McLaren deliberately risk under fueling?
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Racism or Corruption?
Page 2 of 4
posted on 12/5/12
G_A show me in the regulations where it states a car must return to the pits under its own power after the race, Article 6.6.2 only covers what must happen after quali and therefore is not applicable to the end of the race. If you can find me a similar regulation for post race I will conceed you have a point but there is none that I know of!
Hamilton and Mclaren broke a regulation and in the stewards eyes did this to gain an advantage and therefore were punished, what is so difficult to understand about that?
posted on 12/5/12
hazsa - would you like to explain what about my comment was moronic or are you just throwing insults as you have nothing intelligible to add to the debate?
posted on 12/5/12
MadManc, the point is not that they were penalised, but the severity of the penalty. I've heard of 5 place grid drops and rarely 10 place grid drops, but to be expelled and therefore relegated from pole to last is suspicious.
posted on 12/5/12
Already made every point I have to make earlier in the thread.
posted on 12/5/12
yes infact i do, it's not about driver allegiances though. F1 is a team game and Hamilton's TEAM got rightly punished. Hamilton's gripe should be with his team not with the FIA.
I feel i have over used the word team to emphasise my point
posted on 12/5/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 12/5/12
truey, I agree it was severe and stated earlier I thought it would have been a 5 place grid penalty.
I have also stated that I feel the stewards decision was influenced by 1) Mclaren being reprimanded about this before and 2) the stewards believing mclaren tried to deceive the stewards by having Hamilton stop on Track
posted on 12/5/12
MadManc so you saying then that the purpose of testing fuels after the races was a hobby? Infact if so be it that the rules doesn't state it, more idiots of the rules then. If under fueling a car during qualifying give you great advantage over 1 lap, imagine what it might give the real race. Shouldn't it be sensible then that the same rules apply to race and qualifying? For example, Vettel could have easily run out of fuel and Kimi would have pass him at Bahrain.
Did Mclaren break the rules? Yes. Did Lewis break the rules? No, he doesn't fill up his won tank. Does he deserve a penalty? Possibly. Demoted back of the grid? Never heard that before, it's a new one.
posted on 12/5/12
Support of Lewis Hamilton seems to upset certain individuals for reasons that escapes me (not really).
Lewis was excluded from qualifying and that means that he should not be allowed to race. Same as the 107% rule.
The stewards seem to be making things up as they go along.
posted on 12/5/12
WTCBU
so you are wanting an even harsher penalty. WOW!!
posted on 12/5/12
No I am saying that there is no requirement for a car to return to the pits under its own power after a race as there is after quali and therefore stopping out on track after the race is nor comparable.
I'm not sure your maths is up to scratch on giving a greater advantage in the race, having 2 laps of fuel when everyone else has 3 will give you a much greater advantage than having 66 laps of fuel when everyone else has 67.
Yes it may be an oversight to not have the same rules for quali as the race but the teams all know this and to fall foul of the rules is their own fault.
Finally I have already stated the penalty is harsh on Hamilton but to claim its racism or a conspiracy is simply spurious. remember that Mclaren have been reprimanded on this issue before so it is not like it is an isolated incident!
posted on 12/5/12
WTCBU - support of Hamilton does not bother me, the ridiculous conspiracy theories that get trotted out when ever something doesn't go Hamilton's way do bother me though (i.e. the suggestion that this penalty may be racial motivated!)
posted on 12/5/12
JUG
No I am just ridiculing the demands of Hamilton hating football supporters regarding their outrage at Lewis Hamilton getting pole.
posted on 12/5/12
Who cares even if the guy isn't allowed to race. Not like it's important when the higher powers can just render his results through other dubious means. Like i said, tell the guy, blacks are not allowed to be in Formula 1 and we can all move on. Simple as that.
Anyways, as for McLaren, their managment has become the laughing stock of Formula 1. Are the even rivals to the likes of Red Bull? Why should Vettle even bother to qualify for podium when there is a certainty of McLaren messing Lewis' race with either this blunder of in the pits.
posted on 12/5/12
i do not hate Hamilton and don't assume i do you classless idiot
posted on 12/5/12
I'm not sure your maths is up to scratch on giving a greater advantage in the race, having 2 laps of fuel when everyone else has 3 will give you a much greater advantage than having 66 laps of fuel when everyone else has 67
--------------------------------------------
Thats's where you are wrong again as seen in Vettle's case and me pointing out he could have run out of fuel at the end and Kimi would have pass him. Exactly the same dubious act with race distance the only difference and one was punished and the other well..... He is not black. You can deny all you want but the consistency of bias against Lewis should make this bea valid question of whether he is racially victimised.
posted on 12/5/12
JUG
You may not hate Hamilton but you do not seem to have any interest in F1 either.
Why would you support that punishment if you understood the sport or the history of the sport.
Your contribution to the topic seems to me as being more idiotic and classless than mine.
posted on 12/5/12
Excuse me, i have posted on this board before and just because my name is football orientated does not mean i don't enjoy other sports.
They tried to cheat the FIA and other teams. The punishment befits the crime. Is it just me who is seeing this. Take off your rose tinted spectacles mate.
posted on 12/5/12
Another thing to consider in the fuel in quali vs fuel in race debate is that the drivers can alter the rate at which the car consumes fuel.
Fuel tanks on F1 cars are not big enough for a driver to go flat out for the entire race. Therefore there will be times when a driver will hang back and try to manage his fuel, choosing a configuration that allows it.
In qualifying, every single driver has to go flat out and set their engines to the highest rate of fuel consumption to get the most horse-power, allowing them to set the fastest possible time.
If the car is underfuelled in qualifying, it is an advantage as the car is lighter and the driver only needs 1 lap to set a time.
If the car is underfuelled in the race, it actually disadvantages the driver as they can't afford to push as hard as their rivals in some parts of the race.
posted on 12/5/12
JustAnotherGunner, "they tried to cheat the other teams".
You don't really know that. The margins for fuelling correctly are so tiny. It could have been an error. We just don't know.
posted on 12/5/12
Vettel had enough fuel to comply with the regulations, Hamilton did not. That is why Hamilton was given a penalty not because Hamilton is black.
posted on 12/5/12
well im guessing, with the severity of the punishment, thats how the fia saw it
posted on 12/5/12
JUG
Should Lewis Hamilton have his super licence removed?
Why not?
Broke the rules didn't he?
posted on 12/5/12
Vettel had enough fuel to comply with the regulations, Hamilton did not. That is why Hamilton was given a penalty not because Hamilton is black.
well said
posted on 12/5/12
The whole thing is bizarre. Ferrari were nowhere near Hamilton. Red Bull were nowhere near Hamilton. Hamilton's nearest rival for pole was flipping Maldonado!!!
Why would McLaren deliberately risk under fueling?
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