for all his accolades, carrick is not a mobile midfielder
-------------------------------
Can you explain that further?
He may not be blessed with pace but he regularly tops the opta stats for ground covered and with Carrick, you know it isn't headless chicken movement.
Carrick doesn;t scamper like a Scott Parker because he has generally read the play and is already in position.
Carrick never stops moving. Much of it is off the ball and goes unnoticed.
Lack of mobility isn't something you can level at Carrick
Redasarabiantomatoes (U12026)
I don't think Giggs or Park should be starting games, I agree with this.
But our midfield NEEDED Paul Scholes. Without him we wouldn't have been challanging for the title, it really is that simple.
And you are calling Scholes 'above average'. This is a man who had a pass completion of over 90%, the highest in the league.
He can't go on forever, but right now, bar Xavi, is there a midfielder who dictate a game like Scholes? I know I can't think of one.
You have to understand, if there was a replacement available at a decent price, who does what Scholes does, he'd of been replaced by now. I don't know why fans don't get this.
UnitedAlienMacca
I think what he means is he doesn't run around like a headless chicken. Rather than a tenacious, get in your face midfielder, as you say he reads the game and takes up positions which cuts out passing options or space for the opposition attackers.
Though I do agree to an extent a quicker, more agile type of midfielder would compliment Carrick, Scholes passing and the way he finds space more than makes up for his lack of pace.
for all his accolades, carrick is not a mobile midfielder
-------------------------------
Can you explain that further?
*************************************
Carrick is a fantastic player. his positional sense is impeccable and for that his does not need to move that much. But as a midfielder in a 4-4-2, he has to move into space to make the midfield work and prevent rooney having to come back and be the link up. Parker overdoes it by bursting forward all the time. It shows in their attacking play which can be brilliant at times but also in their defence. carrick underdoes this and it shows in our midfield loosing possession at times and the dependence on the long diagonal pass to compensate for the lack of of link up.
If we are going to have carrick in midfield, then the other midfielder is going to need to compensate by being constantly active, providing the option even to the point were if rooney drops into midfield, he makes the run needed into the box. kind of like the old scholes, only more active. It is the blessing and the curse of 4-4-2. It is highly effective and simple formation if the right people are used. finding the right people is the problem. The point is having a player who is not a cover every blade type of player beside carrick will lead to what we have now in midfield. We heed the headless chicken of parker beside carrick only not headless and twice as skillful.
Anyways my point is, carrick is not the prototypical 4-4-2 midfielder so if you want to play 4-4-2, you need someone to compensate.
It would be nice to have a midfielder with a bit of drive like Toure. Though Anderson and Clev do posses this attribute.
In fact, if he can stay injury free Clev could be the ideal partner alongside Carrick.
Red
I understand where you are coming from but like I said, he regularly covers more ground than anyone in a United top in any given game. Suggests to me he is very mobile. He just isn't quick.
For me, a fit Anderson is perfect to partner Carrick in CM in a 442. I'm doubting we will ever get to see it much in the future though sadly.
Thoughts go back to them playing together in the 5-0 anf 7-1 thrashings of Blackburn and and Birmingham last season in particular
It's never nice to talk about players leaving or wanting them to leave but I am encouraged that the rumours are suggesting exits for players that I would be keen to let go so that we can bring in replacements. Owen leaving was a relief for me. If Park leaves as well I think that would also be a step in the right direction. Fantastic work rate but not enough qualifty for United imo.
I'm a fan of Berba but if he isn't going to play it's pointless keeping him and unfortunately the same seems true of Ando. He just hasn't stayed fit or produced consistently enough and I'd be happy to cut our losses on him too.
While I'm at it, i don't think Fletch has ever been good enough to be more than a squad player (though I'd be happy to keep him for that role only).
I don't know much about the players we are being linked with tbh so I don't share the excitement in that sense but I'll be delighted if we just bring in at least a few high quality players, young or old. Players good enough to walk into our first 11 right now.
As for Pogba, couldn't care less. He's not even become a proper United player yet so I feel no sense of loss whatsoever. If he turns out to be a great player then fair play to him but I don't really care either way.
comment by UnitedAlienMacca- Pluto consists of 1 million TVs 1 million armchairs 1 million United fans and a laptop just for me. Greeting from Pluto Ja606 (U2024)
posted 14 hours, 29 minutes ago
Red
I understand where you are coming from but like I said, he regularly covers more ground than anyone in a United top in any given game. Suggests to me he is very mobile. He just isn't quick.
For me, a fit Anderson is perfect to partner Carrick in CM in a 442. I'm doubting we will ever get to see it much in the future though sadly.
Thoughts go back to them playing together in the 5-0 anf 7-1 thrashings of Blackburn and and Birmingham last season in particular
**************************************
I think that was the idea of anderson. I was so sure he will pan out as the perfect partner for carrick. His ability to carry the ball forward was going to be key in a midfield that had carrick sitting. But fitness has robbed his potential though the constant rotation has not helped either. Rumours are heating up for him being available which saddens me.
My feeling considering the midfield is we have options and that is why fergie is actually reluctant to buy more midfielders. I look at last yr with the hope of tunni, pogba and morrison coming good and ando and cleverly stepping up together with carrick. The option of Jones being able to step in and fletcher available when formational changes or a need for some "fletcherness" arose and giggs as a bench wildcard. This had the potential to be better than the midfield we had a few yrs ago which had gibson and oshea as options (that won league titles and got to finals). Much better actually.
Yet we seem unable to see just how good the potential of this midfield has and i can only blame fergies mode of bringing the younger players through. he refuses to throw them in the deep end like he used to and they in turn are not used to this pressure. In a perfect world, anderson and pogba should have gone on loan but for varying reasons they couldnt. Cleverley who seemed he was handling the pressure well got injured and thanks to scholes return could not get back into the team immediately. So in yet another rebuilding season, we managed to finally see the true potential of evans, the bright future of welbeck but still no growth in midfield. I do not think it is far fetched to develop a link between the presence of those legends in that position and the slowed development. To me the risk must be taken on the young players we constantly produce every yr or on spending the money on big name midfielders. Fergie cannot halfarse the rebuilding process.
he refuses to throw them in the deep end like he used to and they in turn are not used to this pressure
______________
I disagree with this.
Fergie has had no problem throwing Welbeck, Cleverley, Hernandez, Smalling, Rafael and Fabio in at the deep end. If Fergie has been reluctant to do so with the likes of Tunni, Pogba and Morrison then that can only be because he does not believe they are ready for the step up.
Fergie fields far more young players today than he ever used to in the past. The class of '92 was the exception, not the rule. Clearly, the manager felt those players were ready to step up and he was right. Clearly he felt Morrison was not ready for the step up and he was right about that too (he hasn;t even been picked for West Ham in a lower division so definitely not ready for United).
Even the class of '92 came into a side brimming with world class players at their peak which is not the case today. I think our problem has been that we have tried to bring through far too many youngsters at once, not that we aren't giving youngsters a chance.
I mean, how can you integrate this many young players into he first team at the same time (i.e. within 2-3 years)?
Evans
Smalling
Jones
Rafael
Fabio
Anderson
Pogba
Morrison
Tunni
Bebe
Obertan
Hernandez
Welbeck
Macheda
Fryers
Cleverley
De Gea
And that's without even mentioning our promising youngsters that have seen no first team action yet - i.e. Petrucci, Keane and co.
The reason there is too much pressure on these youngsters is that we don't have enough quality players at their peak to take the burden of pressure off the youngsters. Our squad is a mix of young and old with little in between - i.e. players at their peak. That puts added pressure on the youngsters.
Our squad is a mix of young and old with little in between - i.e. players at their peak. That puts added pressure on the youngsters.
--------------------
I made a thread about that very same thing a couple of months ago to highlight the fact that Sir Alex next side is still a work in progress, and it very nearly won the league
Just list the players in the whole squad who are 26, 27, 28 or 29
Did you Macca? You mean I didnt have my first original thought?
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
I made this exact pt and listed all the players and their ages, as I the squad is currently very lop sided at the top and bottom ends of the age spectrum.
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
My article from March Pea
But fitness has robbed his potential though the constant rotation has not helped either.
................
What peed me off was SAF dropping Ando for Fletch last season.
Ando was playing really well at the time, but Fletch had a run of about six games at Ando's expense, and it was clear Fletch was not right.
Ando then got injured the next time he played, and that was pretty much it.
Ando and Clevs looked a promising partnership to be honest.
comment by UnitedAlienMacca- Pluto consists of 1 million TVs 1 million armchairs 1 million United fans and a laptop just for me. Greeting from Pluto Ja606 (U2024)
posted 8 minutes ago
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
My article from March Pea
______________
Haven't you just relinked my article
I got freaked out for a second as thought I'd subconsciously plagiarised you letter for letter
@Vidichin - I've always thought SAF has a bit of a Scottish fetish, he's always seemed a bit biased towards Scottish players.
I remember when McClair went downhill big time, but he'd still play him game after game. Standing behind the goal during a warm up of McClair Leighton was actually quite funny. They got slaughtered, and most of the time McClair's shots to warm up Jim didnt even hit the target, and when they did Jim dropped them. Couldn't hit a bus or catch a bus at times those two.
It's going to be a big struggle for Fletcher now, and unfortunately he'll never know from game to game if he's going to be fit. Difficult to plan like that.
PS I agree Anderson and Clev did look great at the start of the season, but unfortunately the normal Anderson fitness pattern then happened as you say. Let's hope Clev hasnt caught it.
lol Sorry pea
Here's the correct one
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/99105
Ah I see. Great minds think alike then, although mine was obviously better (definitely longer as usual )
I really think we could do with some signings in that missing age group since it's such a significant group and definitely takes pressure off the kids, and also the players with creaking bones.
Don't care which of you said it first, you're both right!
Sign in if you want to comment
Goodbye Pogba
Page 3 of 3
posted on 23/5/12
for all his accolades, carrick is not a mobile midfielder
-------------------------------
Can you explain that further?
He may not be blessed with pace but he regularly tops the opta stats for ground covered and with Carrick, you know it isn't headless chicken movement.
Carrick doesn;t scamper like a Scott Parker because he has generally read the play and is already in position.
Carrick never stops moving. Much of it is off the ball and goes unnoticed.
Lack of mobility isn't something you can level at Carrick
posted on 23/5/12
Redasarabiantomatoes (U12026)
I don't think Giggs or Park should be starting games, I agree with this.
But our midfield NEEDED Paul Scholes. Without him we wouldn't have been challanging for the title, it really is that simple.
And you are calling Scholes 'above average'. This is a man who had a pass completion of over 90%, the highest in the league.
He can't go on forever, but right now, bar Xavi, is there a midfielder who dictate a game like Scholes? I know I can't think of one.
You have to understand, if there was a replacement available at a decent price, who does what Scholes does, he'd of been replaced by now. I don't know why fans don't get this.
posted on 23/5/12
UnitedAlienMacca
I think what he means is he doesn't run around like a headless chicken. Rather than a tenacious, get in your face midfielder, as you say he reads the game and takes up positions which cuts out passing options or space for the opposition attackers.
Though I do agree to an extent a quicker, more agile type of midfielder would compliment Carrick, Scholes passing and the way he finds space more than makes up for his lack of pace.
posted on 23/5/12
for all his accolades, carrick is not a mobile midfielder
-------------------------------
Can you explain that further?
*************************************
Carrick is a fantastic player. his positional sense is impeccable and for that his does not need to move that much. But as a midfielder in a 4-4-2, he has to move into space to make the midfield work and prevent rooney having to come back and be the link up. Parker overdoes it by bursting forward all the time. It shows in their attacking play which can be brilliant at times but also in their defence. carrick underdoes this and it shows in our midfield loosing possession at times and the dependence on the long diagonal pass to compensate for the lack of of link up.
If we are going to have carrick in midfield, then the other midfielder is going to need to compensate by being constantly active, providing the option even to the point were if rooney drops into midfield, he makes the run needed into the box. kind of like the old scholes, only more active. It is the blessing and the curse of 4-4-2. It is highly effective and simple formation if the right people are used. finding the right people is the problem. The point is having a player who is not a cover every blade type of player beside carrick will lead to what we have now in midfield. We heed the headless chicken of parker beside carrick only not headless and twice as skillful.
Anyways my point is, carrick is not the prototypical 4-4-2 midfielder so if you want to play 4-4-2, you need someone to compensate.
posted on 23/5/12
It would be nice to have a midfielder with a bit of drive like Toure. Though Anderson and Clev do posses this attribute.
In fact, if he can stay injury free Clev could be the ideal partner alongside Carrick.
posted on 23/5/12
Red
I understand where you are coming from but like I said, he regularly covers more ground than anyone in a United top in any given game. Suggests to me he is very mobile. He just isn't quick.
For me, a fit Anderson is perfect to partner Carrick in CM in a 442. I'm doubting we will ever get to see it much in the future though sadly.
Thoughts go back to them playing together in the 5-0 anf 7-1 thrashings of Blackburn and and Birmingham last season in particular
posted on 23/5/12
It's never nice to talk about players leaving or wanting them to leave but I am encouraged that the rumours are suggesting exits for players that I would be keen to let go so that we can bring in replacements. Owen leaving was a relief for me. If Park leaves as well I think that would also be a step in the right direction. Fantastic work rate but not enough qualifty for United imo.
I'm a fan of Berba but if he isn't going to play it's pointless keeping him and unfortunately the same seems true of Ando. He just hasn't stayed fit or produced consistently enough and I'd be happy to cut our losses on him too.
While I'm at it, i don't think Fletch has ever been good enough to be more than a squad player (though I'd be happy to keep him for that role only).
I don't know much about the players we are being linked with tbh so I don't share the excitement in that sense but I'll be delighted if we just bring in at least a few high quality players, young or old. Players good enough to walk into our first 11 right now.
As for Pogba, couldn't care less. He's not even become a proper United player yet so I feel no sense of loss whatsoever. If he turns out to be a great player then fair play to him but I don't really care either way.
posted on 24/5/12
comment by UnitedAlienMacca- Pluto consists of 1 million TVs 1 million armchairs 1 million United fans and a laptop just for me. Greeting from Pluto Ja606 (U2024)
posted 14 hours, 29 minutes ago
Red
I understand where you are coming from but like I said, he regularly covers more ground than anyone in a United top in any given game. Suggests to me he is very mobile. He just isn't quick.
For me, a fit Anderson is perfect to partner Carrick in CM in a 442. I'm doubting we will ever get to see it much in the future though sadly.
Thoughts go back to them playing together in the 5-0 anf 7-1 thrashings of Blackburn and and Birmingham last season in particular
**************************************
I think that was the idea of anderson. I was so sure he will pan out as the perfect partner for carrick. His ability to carry the ball forward was going to be key in a midfield that had carrick sitting. But fitness has robbed his potential though the constant rotation has not helped either. Rumours are heating up for him being available which saddens me.
My feeling considering the midfield is we have options and that is why fergie is actually reluctant to buy more midfielders. I look at last yr with the hope of tunni, pogba and morrison coming good and ando and cleverly stepping up together with carrick. The option of Jones being able to step in and fletcher available when formational changes or a need for some "fletcherness" arose and giggs as a bench wildcard. This had the potential to be better than the midfield we had a few yrs ago which had gibson and oshea as options (that won league titles and got to finals). Much better actually.
Yet we seem unable to see just how good the potential of this midfield has and i can only blame fergies mode of bringing the younger players through. he refuses to throw them in the deep end like he used to and they in turn are not used to this pressure. In a perfect world, anderson and pogba should have gone on loan but for varying reasons they couldnt. Cleverley who seemed he was handling the pressure well got injured and thanks to scholes return could not get back into the team immediately. So in yet another rebuilding season, we managed to finally see the true potential of evans, the bright future of welbeck but still no growth in midfield. I do not think it is far fetched to develop a link between the presence of those legends in that position and the slowed development. To me the risk must be taken on the young players we constantly produce every yr or on spending the money on big name midfielders. Fergie cannot halfarse the rebuilding process.
posted on 24/5/12
he refuses to throw them in the deep end like he used to and they in turn are not used to this pressure
______________
I disagree with this.
Fergie has had no problem throwing Welbeck, Cleverley, Hernandez, Smalling, Rafael and Fabio in at the deep end. If Fergie has been reluctant to do so with the likes of Tunni, Pogba and Morrison then that can only be because he does not believe they are ready for the step up.
Fergie fields far more young players today than he ever used to in the past. The class of '92 was the exception, not the rule. Clearly, the manager felt those players were ready to step up and he was right. Clearly he felt Morrison was not ready for the step up and he was right about that too (he hasn;t even been picked for West Ham in a lower division so definitely not ready for United).
Even the class of '92 came into a side brimming with world class players at their peak which is not the case today. I think our problem has been that we have tried to bring through far too many youngsters at once, not that we aren't giving youngsters a chance.
I mean, how can you integrate this many young players into he first team at the same time (i.e. within 2-3 years)?
Evans
Smalling
Jones
Rafael
Fabio
Anderson
Pogba
Morrison
Tunni
Bebe
Obertan
Hernandez
Welbeck
Macheda
Fryers
Cleverley
De Gea
And that's without even mentioning our promising youngsters that have seen no first team action yet - i.e. Petrucci, Keane and co.
The reason there is too much pressure on these youngsters is that we don't have enough quality players at their peak to take the burden of pressure off the youngsters. Our squad is a mix of young and old with little in between - i.e. players at their peak. That puts added pressure on the youngsters.
posted on 24/5/12
Our squad is a mix of young and old with little in between - i.e. players at their peak. That puts added pressure on the youngsters.
--------------------
I made a thread about that very same thing a couple of months ago to highlight the fact that Sir Alex next side is still a work in progress, and it very nearly won the league
Just list the players in the whole squad who are 26, 27, 28 or 29
posted on 24/5/12
Did you Macca? You mean I didnt have my first original thought?
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
I made this exact pt and listed all the players and their ages, as I the squad is currently very lop sided at the top and bottom ends of the age spectrum.
posted on 24/5/12
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
My article from March Pea
posted on 24/5/12
But fitness has robbed his potential though the constant rotation has not helped either.
................
What peed me off was SAF dropping Ando for Fletch last season.
Ando was playing really well at the time, but Fletch had a run of about six games at Ando's expense, and it was clear Fletch was not right.
Ando then got injured the next time he played, and that was pretty much it.
Ando and Clevs looked a promising partnership to be honest.
posted on 24/5/12
comment by UnitedAlienMacca- Pluto consists of 1 million TVs 1 million armchairs 1 million United fans and a laptop just for me. Greeting from Pluto Ja606 (U2024)
posted 8 minutes ago
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/113208
My article from March Pea
______________
Haven't you just relinked my article
I got freaked out for a second as thought I'd subconsciously plagiarised you letter for letter
@Vidichin - I've always thought SAF has a bit of a Scottish fetish, he's always seemed a bit biased towards Scottish players.
I remember when McClair went downhill big time, but he'd still play him game after game. Standing behind the goal during a warm up of McClair Leighton was actually quite funny. They got slaughtered, and most of the time McClair's shots to warm up Jim didnt even hit the target, and when they did Jim dropped them. Couldn't hit a bus or catch a bus at times those two.
It's going to be a big struggle for Fletcher now, and unfortunately he'll never know from game to game if he's going to be fit. Difficult to plan like that.
PS I agree Anderson and Clev did look great at the start of the season, but unfortunately the normal Anderson fitness pattern then happened as you say. Let's hope Clev hasnt caught it.
posted on 24/5/12
lol Sorry pea
Here's the correct one
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/99105
posted on 24/5/12
Ah I see. Great minds think alike then, although mine was obviously better (definitely longer as usual )
I really think we could do with some signings in that missing age group since it's such a significant group and definitely takes pressure off the kids, and also the players with creaking bones.
posted on 24/5/12
Don't care which of you said it first, you're both right!
Page 3 of 3