I was just to post something related to this on your predictions thread when I spotted this one.
I wanted to say that I feel it's time English rugby removed or significantly raised the wage cap. I'm certain the wage cap was the right move when Rugby went professional as it kept a lid on clubs going crazy and eventually broke. But we've had years of sensible financial management and the crowds and tv income have shown no signs of suddenly declining so maybe its time to let the clubs spend how they see fit.
Anyways on topic, I don't think club rugby needs that much tinkering. Winning the Amlin giving you entry to the HC is brilliant and something football should learn from.
As far as domestic leagues go, if you're going to make the changes you propose you may as well go the whole hog and create a European league with 2 divisions and a league cup.
Thinking about it, that could be a lot of fun actually...
Sporty Im not convinced the wage cap is the issue however its a factor.
I think the clubs in england yes need to raise the wage cap but more importantly limit the amount of foreign signings for each club. This way the clubs can fill gaps in their squad with imports but will also have the cash to pay and motivate the homegrown players.
Would possibly be short term loss but long term gain would be guaranteed.
As for the league structures. The french are always going to do whatever they wish as is the french way. I think the leagues right now are fine. But the difficulty is when it comes to the Heineken cup and they cant agree on the colour of u.know.what!
8 teams from rabo, 6 from france and 6 from england. + 1 and the previous winner make up 22 in the hc. The french and english leagues want to reduce it to 20 but insist the rabo should lose 2. and they also want a bigger chunk of the money pie.
This situation is not possible.
Its one of those times you can actually see both sides of the argument which usually means getting a resolution will be tough.
On the plus side I've noticed a massive upturn in Heineken Cup support from my friends and family that have been turned off football for a variety of reasons. The structures may not be perfect but the product as a whole is great.
No the Aviva premiership is fine its growing bigger and bigger. Attendances are growing, its becoming more popular
Its the Rabo direct thats dying and needs change
John
With all due respect i would like to see some numbers supporting that claim.
Anyway, one league has nothing to do with the other in reality and on a personal note i have never bought into the idiocy of arguing which is a better league. That's simply a nationalistic thing and people are always going to favour their own league.
SARS a european super league sounds and interesting idea but how would it work?
Would we keep the currant league systems in each country and then the top 4 from the 3 leagues move up? Also would bring relegation into place, where a superleague would the be pinnacle and the domestic leagues would be kind of secondary. But you know something. the french would NEVER go for it. Not in a million years.
I do however think that there could be room for an expanded Aviva. where Ireland, scotland and wales would be part of it. Call it a british isles league for want of a better word, but again it probably wouldn't work. They would never be able to agree. And sadly i would imagine that such a league would kill the Heineken cup which for my money is the out right best rugby competition on the planet.
The way English clubs can gain a semblance of parity back is not necessarily in raising the salary cap but in the way money is dealt by the RFU.
If a (for instance) Saracen's player is in the Elite England squad then the RFU should pay their salary - thus removing that cost from the club allowing the club to hire a similar standard replacement within the salary cap.
Should the player cease to be in the EPS then the club has a period of time to return to paying their salary themselves.
The Rabo clubs have an advantage in that they do not have to play their "top" players to get into the Heineken cup so they are fresh for the "important" games - but thems the breaks
Addisons
Not quite correct mate. BUt your on the right track. Let me clarify.
In fact in ireland ALL players are contracted centrally to the IRFU not the clubs. There is a limit on foreign imports per provincial team, this is 4 maximum. In order to develop home grown talent.
After that there is a player welfare structure where the elite Ireland squad members are limited for the club games. nothing to do with the Heineken cup at all in point of fact all the elite players are always available for all the HC games. Its the Rabo league where the coaches suffer.
Now as for this being an advantage i 100% disagree as this is no advantage whatsoever. this is a policy of the IRFU and there is nothing at all stopping any other union from doing this. WHats stops the RFU in england from doing this is that player contracts are privatized to the clubs and so the RFU pay appearance fees and bonuses etc etc to the players in order to motivate them to play for England.
Where in ireland the players are duty bound to play for Ireland and the provincial team is absolutely secondary. IRFU modus operandi is very simple. the provinces exist ONLY to provide players for the national team. Not the other way around.
Hi there
I suppose the "European Super League" option would start with teams in a similar fashion to the Heineken Cup, but with the bottom three sides relegated at the end of the year. Replacing these would come from playoffs between the 2 highest placed sides in the Top 14, Aviva and Rabobank Leagues. I think this would be important to prevent it stagnating.
Of the other options I would suggest the possibility of Welsh and Scottish clubs leaving the Rabobank and returning to a club, rather than province based format in a way to boost attendances, and improve players - obviously this has problems - what to do with the Irish sides (include them in the Aviva?) and the possibility that breaking them up may make them worse, rather than better.
I think the French format should stay as it is largely, though I'd like to see the Italian sides included in there as it would shorten travelling distances, boost attendances and maintian and improve playing standards.
In England I'd suggest an end to the wage cap, but that in Aviva games the wage cap apply to the 22 on that day. In this way larger squads would be allowed to compete in Europe whilst ensuring that competition in the Aviva - and promotion and relegation - continue.
Nott perfect I'll admit, but may a start at least
Just for you DBM, this is from Jerry Guscott's weekly Q&A
I had a fabulous weekend in Belfast watching Saints beating Ulster, and not just because of the result. We were made to feel very welcome by the Ulster fans, even after the game. Where's your favourite destination for a good time with real rugby fans? John Myhill
Hi John, in general all of Ireland is renowned for its hospitality - the locals' generosity is legendary and very enjoyable. It's not always the city that makes the experience so enjoyable, the supporters make it that much more special.
I couldn't pick a favourite, however, anywhere in Ireland is very enjoyable because they love their rugby, appreciate a good team even if they lose and know how to party.
HAHAHA cheers SARS however this just reaffirms my opinion that Guscott spends most if not all of his time taking through his backside. ahahahaha
I jest of course. We'er also well known for taking the Michael out of OURSELVES
Merry Christmas!
Excuse me, but Guscott does NOT speak through his Areshole. He's far too anally retentive for that to ever happen.
I'm told he once bowlocked a young stand off making his debut because the pass was about 3 inches from where he wanted it.
To$$er
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Redesigning Northern hemisphere rugby
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posted on 15/12/12
I was just to post something related to this on your predictions thread when I spotted this one.
I wanted to say that I feel it's time English rugby removed or significantly raised the wage cap. I'm certain the wage cap was the right move when Rugby went professional as it kept a lid on clubs going crazy and eventually broke. But we've had years of sensible financial management and the crowds and tv income have shown no signs of suddenly declining so maybe its time to let the clubs spend how they see fit.
Anyways on topic, I don't think club rugby needs that much tinkering. Winning the Amlin giving you entry to the HC is brilliant and something football should learn from.
As far as domestic leagues go, if you're going to make the changes you propose you may as well go the whole hog and create a European league with 2 divisions and a league cup.
Thinking about it, that could be a lot of fun actually...
posted on 15/12/12
Sporty Im not convinced the wage cap is the issue however its a factor.
I think the clubs in england yes need to raise the wage cap but more importantly limit the amount of foreign signings for each club. This way the clubs can fill gaps in their squad with imports but will also have the cash to pay and motivate the homegrown players.
Would possibly be short term loss but long term gain would be guaranteed.
As for the league structures. The french are always going to do whatever they wish as is the french way. I think the leagues right now are fine. But the difficulty is when it comes to the Heineken cup and they cant agree on the colour of u.know.what!
8 teams from rabo, 6 from france and 6 from england. + 1 and the previous winner make up 22 in the hc. The french and english leagues want to reduce it to 20 but insist the rabo should lose 2. and they also want a bigger chunk of the money pie.
This situation is not possible.
posted on 16/12/12
Its one of those times you can actually see both sides of the argument which usually means getting a resolution will be tough.
On the plus side I've noticed a massive upturn in Heineken Cup support from my friends and family that have been turned off football for a variety of reasons. The structures may not be perfect but the product as a whole is great.
posted on 17/12/12
No the Aviva premiership is fine its growing bigger and bigger. Attendances are growing, its becoming more popular
Its the Rabo direct thats dying and needs change
posted on 18/12/12
John
With all due respect i would like to see some numbers supporting that claim.
Anyway, one league has nothing to do with the other in reality and on a personal note i have never bought into the idiocy of arguing which is a better league. That's simply a nationalistic thing and people are always going to favour their own league.
SARS a european super league sounds and interesting idea but how would it work?
Would we keep the currant league systems in each country and then the top 4 from the 3 leagues move up? Also would bring relegation into place, where a superleague would the be pinnacle and the domestic leagues would be kind of secondary. But you know something. the french would NEVER go for it. Not in a million years.
posted on 18/12/12
I do however think that there could be room for an expanded Aviva. where Ireland, scotland and wales would be part of it. Call it a british isles league for want of a better word, but again it probably wouldn't work. They would never be able to agree. And sadly i would imagine that such a league would kill the Heineken cup which for my money is the out right best rugby competition on the planet.
posted on 18/12/12
The way English clubs can gain a semblance of parity back is not necessarily in raising the salary cap but in the way money is dealt by the RFU.
If a (for instance) Saracen's player is in the Elite England squad then the RFU should pay their salary - thus removing that cost from the club allowing the club to hire a similar standard replacement within the salary cap.
Should the player cease to be in the EPS then the club has a period of time to return to paying their salary themselves.
The Rabo clubs have an advantage in that they do not have to play their "top" players to get into the Heineken cup so they are fresh for the "important" games - but thems the breaks
posted on 18/12/12
Addisons
Not quite correct mate. BUt your on the right track. Let me clarify.
In fact in ireland ALL players are contracted centrally to the IRFU not the clubs. There is a limit on foreign imports per provincial team, this is 4 maximum. In order to develop home grown talent.
After that there is a player welfare structure where the elite Ireland squad members are limited for the club games. nothing to do with the Heineken cup at all in point of fact all the elite players are always available for all the HC games. Its the Rabo league where the coaches suffer.
Now as for this being an advantage i 100% disagree as this is no advantage whatsoever. this is a policy of the IRFU and there is nothing at all stopping any other union from doing this. WHats stops the RFU in england from doing this is that player contracts are privatized to the clubs and so the RFU pay appearance fees and bonuses etc etc to the players in order to motivate them to play for England.
Where in ireland the players are duty bound to play for Ireland and the provincial team is absolutely secondary. IRFU modus operandi is very simple. the provinces exist ONLY to provide players for the national team. Not the other way around.
posted on 19/12/12
Hi there
I suppose the "European Super League" option would start with teams in a similar fashion to the Heineken Cup, but with the bottom three sides relegated at the end of the year. Replacing these would come from playoffs between the 2 highest placed sides in the Top 14, Aviva and Rabobank Leagues. I think this would be important to prevent it stagnating.
Of the other options I would suggest the possibility of Welsh and Scottish clubs leaving the Rabobank and returning to a club, rather than province based format in a way to boost attendances, and improve players - obviously this has problems - what to do with the Irish sides (include them in the Aviva?) and the possibility that breaking them up may make them worse, rather than better.
I think the French format should stay as it is largely, though I'd like to see the Italian sides included in there as it would shorten travelling distances, boost attendances and maintian and improve playing standards.
In England I'd suggest an end to the wage cap, but that in Aviva games the wage cap apply to the 22 on that day. In this way larger squads would be allowed to compete in Europe whilst ensuring that competition in the Aviva - and promotion and relegation - continue.
Nott perfect I'll admit, but may a start at least
posted on 19/12/12
Just for you DBM, this is from Jerry Guscott's weekly Q&A
I had a fabulous weekend in Belfast watching Saints beating Ulster, and not just because of the result. We were made to feel very welcome by the Ulster fans, even after the game. Where's your favourite destination for a good time with real rugby fans? John Myhill
Hi John, in general all of Ireland is renowned for its hospitality - the locals' generosity is legendary and very enjoyable. It's not always the city that makes the experience so enjoyable, the supporters make it that much more special.
I couldn't pick a favourite, however, anywhere in Ireland is very enjoyable because they love their rugby, appreciate a good team even if they lose and know how to party.
posted on 19/12/12
HAHAHA cheers SARS however this just reaffirms my opinion that Guscott spends most if not all of his time taking through his backside. ahahahaha
I jest of course. We'er also well known for taking the Michael out of OURSELVES
Merry Christmas!
posted on 30/12/12
Excuse me, but Guscott does NOT speak through his Areshole. He's far too anally retentive for that to ever happen.
I'm told he once bowlocked a young stand off making his debut because the pass was about 3 inches from where he wanted it.
To$$er
Page 1 of 1