"People who think it's too big a risk to get rid of Wenger are short-sighted in my opinion. With a new manager, we may do worse, we may get better, we may be roughly at the same level. But we will never know unless we try"
Exactly what I think
Who knows?
Surely he can't be immune to the chorus of boo's at the end of the Blackburn game. They weren't present a few seasons ago.
The major issue is, resigning would be a failure to him. Being sacked the ultimate insult. His saving grace would be leaving at the end of his contract, which means another year is almost a guarantee.
By then, possibly 2 years without CL, with a new manager coming in in a WC year will mean Arsenals position is very very low for the new manager to start with and it will be a long way back - just look what has happened to Liverpool.
Forget about the CL. It's our addiction to the CL cash that has got us in this mess in the first place. Without CL money, maybe our biggest problem of the lot, Stan Kroenke, might even throw in the towel and decide to sell up.
What is would really hate is another patching up job by the new manager. This squad, it's playing and non-playing staff, have deep flaws. And if going without CL for a good few years is the answer, then bring it on.
People who think it's too big a risk to get rid of Wenger are short-sighted in my opinion. With a new manager, we may do worse, we may get better, we may be roughly at the same level. But we will never know unless we try.
---------------------------
And who is going to appoint the new manager?
People forget that European managers, incl Wenger at the beginning, are nothing more than glorified coaches.
David Dein was the technical director when Wenger was appointed. He is not at the club anymore.
So please tell me if you trust someone like Ivan Gazdis to appoint the proper man. Keep in mind this man refused to give Walcott a new contract. Forcing 3 months of Gervinho as the starter putting our CL place in jeopardy.
Gazdis is the man who refused to pay £3m extra for Mata. He is the man who forced Wenger to buy Park to sell some shirts in Korea.
So do you trust Gazdis? Get ready for some rubbish manager like David Moyes.
I don't blame Kroenke. All he's done is come in & improve the marketability of the club, as shown from the increases in commercial revenues.
He won't sell unless the club becomes unprofitable, and they're far from doing that. What's concerning is he may also not remove Wenger until the same scenario occurs.
Arsenal used to be progressive - ahead of the game - now they're reactionary - only acting when it's too late, and constantly playing catch-up just to get 4th place.
don't blame Kroenke. All he's done is come in & improve the marketability of the club, as shown from the increases in commercial revenues.
-----------------------
Err, No. He hasn't done anything. The new deal only happened because the old one ran out. The deal we got only reflects the market rates. And in fact our deal is closer to Man Utd's training kit compared to their main kit.
Jenius99
The main point is that no matter who is appointed (or who appoints him) is that AW is replaced asap.
Personally I would be happy with Bould in the position until the club finds a suitable replacement.
What would Stuart Pearce do?
"Anyone else will do" attitude does not work. If you make a major change in anything you have to be pretty damn sure that the alternative will be better. I used to have the same attitude with Danny Fiszman. But Stan Kroenke has been far worse.
Steve Bould knows 2 players in the squad, Wilshere and Gibbs. He is nothing more than a coach. Do you trust Steve to run scouting? Do you trust him to talk Jovetic into joining us? Gazidis has already shown with Mata that he is more willing to prevaricate over pennies than getting our targets.
We first need a sweeping at the board with a proper structure put in. After that we can start appointing new glorified coaches as managers.
Spurs fan in peace
My brothers a massive Arsenal fan and i spoke to him yesterday, he said at you next home league game (Villa) that in the 37th minute (as your clock runs down from 45 mins to 1) that it will be exactly 8 years since you last won a trophy and the fans intend (or some fans intend) on chanting 'Wenger Out'?! Didnt know if this was true or not.
Kevros, that isn't true, it will be 8 years in May. I've heard a few things about Wenger out chants in the 8th minute but it is a stupid idea and I doubt anything will happen.
There will be more than enough booing at HT/FT after we have been spanked for the message to be got across anyway.
So please tell me if you trust someone like Ivan Gazdis to appoint the proper man. Keep in mind this man refused to give Walcott a new contract. Forcing 3 months of Gervinho as the starter putting our CL place in jeopardy.
Gazdis is the man who refused to pay £3m extra for Mata. He is the man who forced Wenger to buy Park to sell some shirts in Korea.
So do you trust Gazdis? Get ready for some rubbish manager like David Moyes.
======================
That's is my biggest worry Jenius, well said. I am not saying that Wenger should stay or leave but if the story about Gazidis are true, I don't trust the guy to come up with any decent manager. If he refuses to pay for decent players, he'll refuse to pay for a decent manager.
If Gazidis is in charge of recruitting the new manager, then fans can expect to see Big Sam at the Emirates!
Kevros, that isn't true, it will be 8 years in May. I've heard a few things about Wenger out chants in the 8th minute but it is a stupid idea and I doubt anything will happen.
cheers Batmoanu, looks like my brother will be chanting it on his own then
Samir..............................When Wenger first came to Arsenal, who had heard of him? Who had trust in him to turn our fortunes around the way that he did?
What's to say another manager wouldn't do that?
__________________________________________
You could possibly be right, however remember that AW inherited a quality defence, the best in the PL at the time & was able to build from that. Anyone new coming in will be working with a lot less quality in my opinion.
I am not sure if Wenger should go, although I agree that for a club of Arsenal's stature you should have won more in the past 8 years, you should also be brushing aside the likes of Blackburn, Bradford & Birmingham in cup competitions comfortably.
What I see currently wrong with Arsenal are a few things: Self belief is evidently missing from most of the players, that needs restoring asap.
Leadership......................this is also lacking on the pitch & subsequently shows when it is needed most and not forthcoming, especially V Blackburn on Saturday.
I don't think you can expect players like Wilshere to provide this leadership at his age, this is where you need the old heads like Podolski, Arteta & Rosicky to step up to the plate.
It will be interesting to see how you line up against Bayern tomorrow night & even more so how the players react after Saturday!
Genius Greaves
-------------
Unfortunately the myth that Arsene inherited a good defence comes from very lazy journalism.
People underestimate the job Wenger had to do when he joined us. Arsene inherited a tired, old defence that was most infected by drugs, drink and gambling. The same defence was leaking goals like sieve under Rioch. The difference was buying Vieira and Petit that prolonged the life of those defenders who were coming to an end. He made them give up their vices and introduced new training methods.
Arsene rebuilt the defence with Ashley Cole, Sol Campbell, Kolo Toure and Lauren. That was the real successful defence not the one Wenger inherited.
Jenius........................Agree re the import of foreign players, but if you look at your squad in 1996/97 the bedrock was English players, in fact you had virtually the first choice England defence! The addition of Vieira & Petit did indeed improve the middle of the park, However Rioch's record was reasonably good & you finished 5th in his only season in charge. He also signed Bergkamp......................................Wenger did not start to change the defence until the new millenium.........................................Wenger built Arsenal on the strength of Adams & Co in his first 4-5 years which was the bedrock for Arsenal's success in the early 2000's
1. David Seaman (England international goalkeeper)
2. Lee Dixon (England int right back)
3. Nigel Winterburn (England int left back)
4. Patrick Vieira (French U21 international midfielder)
5. Steve Bould (England int central defender)
6. Tony Adams (England captain, centre half, club captain)
7. David Platt (England international midfielder)
8. Ian Wright (England int forward, last term's top scorer)
9. Paul Merson (England int midfielder, reformed bad-boy)
10. Dennis Bergkamp (Dutch international forward)
11. Glenn Helder (Dutch int left winger)
12. Andy Linighan (Eng B int central defender, brother of David)
13. Vince Bartram (Reserve goalkeeper)
14. Martin Keown (England int central defender)
15. Ray Parlour (Eng U21 int midfielder with silly haircut)
16. John Hartson (Welsh international striker)
17. David Hillier (Eng U21 international midfielder)
18. Steve Morrow (Northern Ireland int defender/midfield)
19. Remi Garde (French former international midfielder)
20. Chris Kiwomya (Striker, cover for Wright)
21. Eddie McGoldrick (Irish int midfielder, also known as Shoot)
22. Ian Selley (Eng U21 international midfield)
23. Paul Dickov (Scotland U21 international forward)
24. John Lukic (Reserve goalkeeper, 2nd stint at Highbury)
25. Scott Marshall (Reserve centre half)
26. Lee Harper (Reserve goalkeeper)
27. Paul Shaw (Reserve striker)
28. Stephen Hughes (Reserve midfielder)
29. Adrian Clarke (Reserve striker/winger)
30. Gavin McGowan (Reserve fullback)
31. Matthew Rose (Reserve defender)
However Rioch's record was reasonably good & you finished 5th in his only season in charge. He also signed Bergkamp
---------------------
No he didn't. Our system didn't work like that at that time.
David Dein signed Bergkamp and in fact should have also signed Edgar Davids if Rioch hadn't decided to go sailing instead of doing his job. Dein wanted to bring in Arsene to replace Graham but the board didn't want a foreigner so he was voted down. But Dein was always in touch with Wenger even during Rioch year of hell and was buying very much to a continental 'flair model' model.
I don't understand your point of our squad?
The core player of our winning team was Vieira. He changed the entire dynamic of how the ball should be played through midfield. We hadn't replaced Paul Davis and Vieira was the one who took the role to a new level. We haven't won a trophy since Vieira left us!
Sorry to have to correct you, Bergkamp was Rioch's first signing for Arsenal, Dein may have done the negotiations but it was a Rioch signing.
As for Rioch going sailing, again it is Dein who did the negotiations not Rioch.
As for the Rioch year of hell......................the previous season under Graham you finished 12th, under Rioch it was 5th
Under Wenger you started playing more open football & would eventually lose the tag "boring Arsenal".
Vieira was indeed a quality player, but again to put him down as the reason you haven't won a trophy since he left is a bit left field.
Dein has always negotiated the transfers at Arsenal & in fact Rioch had concerns that Dein was too cozy with the players, having drinks & meals out with some of them.
Rioch was not the best appointment in my book, but he was always his own man!
The point of listing the squad when Wenger came in was to highlight the strong England international base & that was Wenger's foundation. Once he started brining in player's like Vieira, Petit, Overmars etc, it allowed the team to be very free flowing whilst having a strong defence.
Cant really see the relevance of AW when he arrived at the club to the AW today. Two different coaches with different ideals.
Even AW in the late naughties had more ambition and drive than he does now.
Sorry to have to correct you, Bergkamp was Rioch's first signing for Arsenal, Dein may have done the negotiations but it was a Rioch signing.
---------------------
I am sorry but you have no idea how our system works.
After George Graham problems David Dein became the director of football. He proposed the signings to the manager who chose whether they should be signed or not. Do you think Rioch even knew how to contact Dennis Bergkamp let alone consider signing such a big name? Agents weren't a very big thing in the 90s. That was the point with Davids. Dein tried to find Rioch to see whether he would want Davids. But he was out sailing instead so we missed out.
David Dein was the one who cultivated the contacts through out Europe and proposed signings. Not the other way round. It was only when Wenger joined us that it became a 50/50 relationship. Arsene brought in a wealth of knowledge of the European market.
And thats one of our problems now. The point I was making earlier. We don't have anyone like that on the board now. And the first step would be to create a structure at board level and reappoint someone in the Dein role before we can even consider replacing Wenger.
The point of listing the squad when Wenger came in was to highlight the strong England international base
----------------------
What are you talking about. Most of the English base weren't central to us winning anything. Most of them were too high to even take the field.
Read 'addicted' by Tony Adams if you really want to find out how bad things were at Arsenal in the mid 90s before Wenger took over.
Jenius99
One of my favourite books. Binbags under training tops etc!!
Some of the things TA got up to; eating glass
Jenius.........................What are you talking about. Most of the English base weren't central to us winning anything. Most of them were too high to even take the field.
______________________________________
So how many of that defence did you have in the team to win the double in 1998?
Your first choice defence was Seaman, Dixon, Keown, Adams & Winterburn!
If Rioch was not choosing players, why didn't Dein just go ahead and sign Edgars? Ever since the early days of Dein at Arsenal he has done the negotiations for players, the manager just indicated who he wanted & Dein did the rest. Which is why Arsenal have struggled since Dein left.
Of course Rioch would have known how to contact Bergkamp, but as I said it was Dein's role to contact players & agents and negotiate on the club's behalf.
Of course Rioch would have known how to contact Bergkamp, but as I said it was Dein's role to contact players & agents and negotiate on the club's behalf.
---------------------
No, Greaves you misunderstand my point. Its about who instigates the contact. I am not sure you understand how technical directors work. We were the first club in England to implement the continental system.
Essentially, the coach asks the technical director that he needs a striker. The technical director then goes out and finds a list of players who are available and within budget. The technical director controls the budget which is given to him by the CFO.
The coach working with the technical director then settles on a name and they make the approach. Of course if the player is not available they move to the next one and so on. Thats what Dein used to do. Arsene Wenger does that now. Rioch wouldn't have even considered Bergkamp.
Some technical directors, for example for Man City and Chelsea don't even bother to consult. They just buy the player depending on where they think there is a need and expect the coach/manager to integrate the player.
Rioch was just a coach and not a very good one. Rioch wanted a new striker and Dein got him one. Dein knew we needed a midfield player and thats why he went after Davids. But as Dein was a very good technical director he wanted to get Rioch's opinion before he proceeded.
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Why Wenger Must Go.
Page 2 of 3
posted on 18/2/13
"People who think it's too big a risk to get rid of Wenger are short-sighted in my opinion. With a new manager, we may do worse, we may get better, we may be roughly at the same level. But we will never know unless we try"
Exactly what I think
posted on 18/2/13
Who knows?
Surely he can't be immune to the chorus of boo's at the end of the Blackburn game. They weren't present a few seasons ago.
The major issue is, resigning would be a failure to him. Being sacked the ultimate insult. His saving grace would be leaving at the end of his contract, which means another year is almost a guarantee.
By then, possibly 2 years without CL, with a new manager coming in in a WC year will mean Arsenals position is very very low for the new manager to start with and it will be a long way back - just look what has happened to Liverpool.
posted on 18/2/13
Forget about the CL. It's our addiction to the CL cash that has got us in this mess in the first place. Without CL money, maybe our biggest problem of the lot, Stan Kroenke, might even throw in the towel and decide to sell up.
What is would really hate is another patching up job by the new manager. This squad, it's playing and non-playing staff, have deep flaws. And if going without CL for a good few years is the answer, then bring it on.
posted on 18/2/13
People who think it's too big a risk to get rid of Wenger are short-sighted in my opinion. With a new manager, we may do worse, we may get better, we may be roughly at the same level. But we will never know unless we try.
---------------------------
And who is going to appoint the new manager?
People forget that European managers, incl Wenger at the beginning, are nothing more than glorified coaches.
David Dein was the technical director when Wenger was appointed. He is not at the club anymore.
So please tell me if you trust someone like Ivan Gazdis to appoint the proper man. Keep in mind this man refused to give Walcott a new contract. Forcing 3 months of Gervinho as the starter putting our CL place in jeopardy.
Gazdis is the man who refused to pay £3m extra for Mata. He is the man who forced Wenger to buy Park to sell some shirts in Korea.
So do you trust Gazdis? Get ready for some rubbish manager like David Moyes.
posted on 18/2/13
I don't blame Kroenke. All he's done is come in & improve the marketability of the club, as shown from the increases in commercial revenues.
He won't sell unless the club becomes unprofitable, and they're far from doing that. What's concerning is he may also not remove Wenger until the same scenario occurs.
Arsenal used to be progressive - ahead of the game - now they're reactionary - only acting when it's too late, and constantly playing catch-up just to get 4th place.
posted on 18/2/13
don't blame Kroenke. All he's done is come in & improve the marketability of the club, as shown from the increases in commercial revenues.
-----------------------
Err, No. He hasn't done anything. The new deal only happened because the old one ran out. The deal we got only reflects the market rates. And in fact our deal is closer to Man Utd's training kit compared to their main kit.
posted on 18/2/13
Jenius99
The main point is that no matter who is appointed (or who appoints him) is that AW is replaced asap.
Personally I would be happy with Bould in the position until the club finds a suitable replacement.
posted on 18/2/13
What would Stuart Pearce do?
"Anyone else will do" attitude does not work. If you make a major change in anything you have to be pretty damn sure that the alternative will be better. I used to have the same attitude with Danny Fiszman. But Stan Kroenke has been far worse.
Steve Bould knows 2 players in the squad, Wilshere and Gibbs. He is nothing more than a coach. Do you trust Steve to run scouting? Do you trust him to talk Jovetic into joining us? Gazidis has already shown with Mata that he is more willing to prevaricate over pennies than getting our targets.
We first need a sweeping at the board with a proper structure put in. After that we can start appointing new glorified coaches as managers.
posted on 18/2/13
Spurs fan in peace
My brothers a massive Arsenal fan and i spoke to him yesterday, he said at you next home league game (Villa) that in the 37th minute (as your clock runs down from 45 mins to 1) that it will be exactly 8 years since you last won a trophy and the fans intend (or some fans intend) on chanting 'Wenger Out'?! Didnt know if this was true or not.
posted on 18/2/13
Kevros, that isn't true, it will be 8 years in May. I've heard a few things about Wenger out chants in the 8th minute but it is a stupid idea and I doubt anything will happen.
There will be more than enough booing at HT/FT after we have been spanked for the message to be got across anyway.
posted on 18/2/13
So please tell me if you trust someone like Ivan Gazdis to appoint the proper man. Keep in mind this man refused to give Walcott a new contract. Forcing 3 months of Gervinho as the starter putting our CL place in jeopardy.
Gazdis is the man who refused to pay £3m extra for Mata. He is the man who forced Wenger to buy Park to sell some shirts in Korea.
So do you trust Gazdis? Get ready for some rubbish manager like David Moyes.
======================
That's is my biggest worry Jenius, well said. I am not saying that Wenger should stay or leave but if the story about Gazidis are true, I don't trust the guy to come up with any decent manager. If he refuses to pay for decent players, he'll refuse to pay for a decent manager.
If Gazidis is in charge of recruitting the new manager, then fans can expect to see Big Sam at the Emirates!
posted on 18/2/13
Kevros, that isn't true, it will be 8 years in May. I've heard a few things about Wenger out chants in the 8th minute but it is a stupid idea and I doubt anything will happen.
cheers Batmoanu, looks like my brother will be chanting it on his own then
posted on 18/2/13
Samir..............................When Wenger first came to Arsenal, who had heard of him? Who had trust in him to turn our fortunes around the way that he did?
What's to say another manager wouldn't do that?
__________________________________________
You could possibly be right, however remember that AW inherited a quality defence, the best in the PL at the time & was able to build from that. Anyone new coming in will be working with a lot less quality in my opinion.
I am not sure if Wenger should go, although I agree that for a club of Arsenal's stature you should have won more in the past 8 years, you should also be brushing aside the likes of Blackburn, Bradford & Birmingham in cup competitions comfortably.
What I see currently wrong with Arsenal are a few things: Self belief is evidently missing from most of the players, that needs restoring asap.
Leadership......................this is also lacking on the pitch & subsequently shows when it is needed most and not forthcoming, especially V Blackburn on Saturday.
I don't think you can expect players like Wilshere to provide this leadership at his age, this is where you need the old heads like Podolski, Arteta & Rosicky to step up to the plate.
It will be interesting to see how you line up against Bayern tomorrow night & even more so how the players react after Saturday!
posted on 18/2/13
Genius Greaves
-------------
Unfortunately the myth that Arsene inherited a good defence comes from very lazy journalism.
People underestimate the job Wenger had to do when he joined us. Arsene inherited a tired, old defence that was most infected by drugs, drink and gambling. The same defence was leaking goals like sieve under Rioch. The difference was buying Vieira and Petit that prolonged the life of those defenders who were coming to an end. He made them give up their vices and introduced new training methods.
Arsene rebuilt the defence with Ashley Cole, Sol Campbell, Kolo Toure and Lauren. That was the real successful defence not the one Wenger inherited.
posted on 18/2/13
Jenius
posted on 18/2/13
Jenius........................Agree re the import of foreign players, but if you look at your squad in 1996/97 the bedrock was English players, in fact you had virtually the first choice England defence! The addition of Vieira & Petit did indeed improve the middle of the park, However Rioch's record was reasonably good & you finished 5th in his only season in charge. He also signed Bergkamp......................................Wenger did not start to change the defence until the new millenium.........................................Wenger built Arsenal on the strength of Adams & Co in his first 4-5 years which was the bedrock for Arsenal's success in the early 2000's
1. David Seaman (England international goalkeeper)
2. Lee Dixon (England int right back)
3. Nigel Winterburn (England int left back)
4. Patrick Vieira (French U21 international midfielder)
5. Steve Bould (England int central defender)
6. Tony Adams (England captain, centre half, club captain)
7. David Platt (England international midfielder)
8. Ian Wright (England int forward, last term's top scorer)
9. Paul Merson (England int midfielder, reformed bad-boy)
10. Dennis Bergkamp (Dutch international forward)
11. Glenn Helder (Dutch int left winger)
12. Andy Linighan (Eng B int central defender, brother of David)
13. Vince Bartram (Reserve goalkeeper)
14. Martin Keown (England int central defender)
15. Ray Parlour (Eng U21 int midfielder with silly haircut)
16. John Hartson (Welsh international striker)
17. David Hillier (Eng U21 international midfielder)
18. Steve Morrow (Northern Ireland int defender/midfield)
19. Remi Garde (French former international midfielder)
20. Chris Kiwomya (Striker, cover for Wright)
21. Eddie McGoldrick (Irish int midfielder, also known as Shoot)
22. Ian Selley (Eng U21 international midfield)
23. Paul Dickov (Scotland U21 international forward)
24. John Lukic (Reserve goalkeeper, 2nd stint at Highbury)
25. Scott Marshall (Reserve centre half)
26. Lee Harper (Reserve goalkeeper)
27. Paul Shaw (Reserve striker)
28. Stephen Hughes (Reserve midfielder)
29. Adrian Clarke (Reserve striker/winger)
30. Gavin McGowan (Reserve fullback)
31. Matthew Rose (Reserve defender)
posted on 18/2/13
However Rioch's record was reasonably good & you finished 5th in his only season in charge. He also signed Bergkamp
---------------------
No he didn't. Our system didn't work like that at that time.
David Dein signed Bergkamp and in fact should have also signed Edgar Davids if Rioch hadn't decided to go sailing instead of doing his job. Dein wanted to bring in Arsene to replace Graham but the board didn't want a foreigner so he was voted down. But Dein was always in touch with Wenger even during Rioch year of hell and was buying very much to a continental 'flair model' model.
I don't understand your point of our squad?
The core player of our winning team was Vieira. He changed the entire dynamic of how the ball should be played through midfield. We hadn't replaced Paul Davis and Vieira was the one who took the role to a new level. We haven't won a trophy since Vieira left us!
posted on 18/2/13
Sorry to have to correct you, Bergkamp was Rioch's first signing for Arsenal, Dein may have done the negotiations but it was a Rioch signing.
As for Rioch going sailing, again it is Dein who did the negotiations not Rioch.
As for the Rioch year of hell......................the previous season under Graham you finished 12th, under Rioch it was 5th
Under Wenger you started playing more open football & would eventually lose the tag "boring Arsenal".
Vieira was indeed a quality player, but again to put him down as the reason you haven't won a trophy since he left is a bit left field.
Dein has always negotiated the transfers at Arsenal & in fact Rioch had concerns that Dein was too cozy with the players, having drinks & meals out with some of them.
Rioch was not the best appointment in my book, but he was always his own man!
posted on 18/2/13
The point of listing the squad when Wenger came in was to highlight the strong England international base & that was Wenger's foundation. Once he started brining in player's like Vieira, Petit, Overmars etc, it allowed the team to be very free flowing whilst having a strong defence.
posted on 18/2/13
Cant really see the relevance of AW when he arrived at the club to the AW today. Two different coaches with different ideals.
Even AW in the late naughties had more ambition and drive than he does now.
posted on 18/2/13
Sorry to have to correct you, Bergkamp was Rioch's first signing for Arsenal, Dein may have done the negotiations but it was a Rioch signing.
---------------------
I am sorry but you have no idea how our system works.
After George Graham problems David Dein became the director of football. He proposed the signings to the manager who chose whether they should be signed or not. Do you think Rioch even knew how to contact Dennis Bergkamp let alone consider signing such a big name? Agents weren't a very big thing in the 90s. That was the point with Davids. Dein tried to find Rioch to see whether he would want Davids. But he was out sailing instead so we missed out.
David Dein was the one who cultivated the contacts through out Europe and proposed signings. Not the other way round. It was only when Wenger joined us that it became a 50/50 relationship. Arsene brought in a wealth of knowledge of the European market.
And thats one of our problems now. The point I was making earlier. We don't have anyone like that on the board now. And the first step would be to create a structure at board level and reappoint someone in the Dein role before we can even consider replacing Wenger.
posted on 18/2/13
The point of listing the squad when Wenger came in was to highlight the strong England international base
----------------------
What are you talking about. Most of the English base weren't central to us winning anything. Most of them were too high to even take the field.
Read 'addicted' by Tony Adams if you really want to find out how bad things were at Arsenal in the mid 90s before Wenger took over.
posted on 18/2/13
Jenius99
One of my favourite books. Binbags under training tops etc!!
Some of the things TA got up to; eating glass
posted on 18/2/13
Jenius.........................What are you talking about. Most of the English base weren't central to us winning anything. Most of them were too high to even take the field.
______________________________________
So how many of that defence did you have in the team to win the double in 1998?
Your first choice defence was Seaman, Dixon, Keown, Adams & Winterburn!
If Rioch was not choosing players, why didn't Dein just go ahead and sign Edgars? Ever since the early days of Dein at Arsenal he has done the negotiations for players, the manager just indicated who he wanted & Dein did the rest. Which is why Arsenal have struggled since Dein left.
Of course Rioch would have known how to contact Bergkamp, but as I said it was Dein's role to contact players & agents and negotiate on the club's behalf.
posted on 18/2/13
Of course Rioch would have known how to contact Bergkamp, but as I said it was Dein's role to contact players & agents and negotiate on the club's behalf.
---------------------
No, Greaves you misunderstand my point. Its about who instigates the contact. I am not sure you understand how technical directors work. We were the first club in England to implement the continental system.
Essentially, the coach asks the technical director that he needs a striker. The technical director then goes out and finds a list of players who are available and within budget. The technical director controls the budget which is given to him by the CFO.
The coach working with the technical director then settles on a name and they make the approach. Of course if the player is not available they move to the next one and so on. Thats what Dein used to do. Arsene Wenger does that now. Rioch wouldn't have even considered Bergkamp.
Some technical directors, for example for Man City and Chelsea don't even bother to consult. They just buy the player depending on where they think there is a need and expect the coach/manager to integrate the player.
Rioch was just a coach and not a very good one. Rioch wanted a new striker and Dein got him one. Dein knew we needed a midfield player and thats why he went after Davids. But as Dein was a very good technical director he wanted to get Rioch's opinion before he proceeded.
Page 2 of 3