Don't really know a lot about Grenier, tbh DTKF.

"Lets hope we get Lombaerts in the Summer "

Koscielny > Vermaelen

cry me a river Dubbed. Vermaelen makes far more mistakes than Koscielny, as I've said a million times already. He's cost us goal after goal. And he's only 1 own goal behind Koscielny

But we've already discussed this plenty of times, so I'm not sure why you're insisting on being a boring, repetitive .

"Koscielny > Vermaelen"
===

Prepare to be bombarded for not being blind.

If you add up all of Vermaelen's mistakes none of them will add up to the game Koscielny had in the Birmingham match in the Carling Cup.

Doesn't matter who is better than who. Both have been part of awful defensive displays.

In the right system both could have been very good, imo Vermaelen would have been better. But our system and attitude towards defending kills defenders.

Koscielny is just as "bad" Vermaelen. He's no better. Don't try it.

"If you add up all of Vermaelen's mistakes none of them will add up to the game Koscielny had in the Birmingham match in the Carling Cup."
===

Says you, the guy who hasn't been out of Vermaelen's bumhole for a few months now. Get out there man, get some fresh air. Explore the world.

"Koscielny is just as "bad" Vermaelen. He's no better. Don't try it."
===

90% of Arsenal fans disagree.

"Says you, the guy who hasn't been out of Vermaelen's bumhole for a few months now. Get out there man, get some fresh air. Explore the world."

Really. You of all people's gonna play that card? If I remember correctly your name was "King Koscielny". Not only that. You're typing from Iniestaville this very moment, so it's very rich coming from you.

'I know you are but what am I?'

'Iniestaville' funniest thing you've ever said.

Ok, DJ. Thanks anyway.

"Koscielny is just as "bad" Vermaelen. He's no better. Don't try it."
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Dubbed, you yourself have called me out for holding a vendetta of sorts against Vermaelen (which couldn't be further from the truth, I do just really think he's a dreadful defender), but I agree with this whoehertedly. Swapping one with the other makes not a jot of difference and pairing them together spells nothing but disaster.

Whilst neither helps themselves by being average to poor in most of the aspects you'd want your defenders to be outstanding in at the level we play at, the system exposes their deficiencies even more than anything they bring on to themselves.

Herbie. That's fair. I just find it funny when people want to get rid of Vermaelen, but keep Koscielny. Boot them both out if you want to get rid.

Keeping Mert as the sole experienced df given his unsuitability for the high line would be risky though. Zouma or Ogbonna would both be decent additions imo

"I just find it funny when people want to get rid of Vermaelen, but keep Koscielny. Boot them both out if you want to get rid."
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Yeah, couldn't agree more.

I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, as much as I've panned Vermaelen from pillar to post this season, I would, were we to bring in a new coach, be willing to see if more could be extracted from our defenders from a coach actually willing to protect them and play to their strengths.

Wenger has shown he either doesn't want to be this man or doesn't posses the ability to do so.

Herbie
Wenger is finished unfortunately. There's just no hope at the moment.
I've lost faith in the guy.

Yep. He needs to be shown the door and has been for a good few years. He'll hang on for as long as he wants to though which is part of the problem because as long as he wants to is until he rights 8 years of wrongs - something he's simply incapable of doing.

I never liked Wenger personally, but even I find it sad to see him become the shadow of the man he once was.

Yeah. Very depressing stuff.

How come you never like him then?

Take him Barca. We can do better.

I just always felt like his decisions undermined the team we had and his steadfast and seemingly unadapatbale philosophy was something I was never a fan of.

Added to this was his arrogance; and not the cartoon villain style arrogance of Jose Mourinho (that I can take or leave), but a subtle, deep rooted arrogance that spoke exactly of a bloke as well educated as he is looking down on those who dare to ever remotely have an opinion that differed from his.

The only thing, from a personal perspective I liked initially, was his unwillingness to hone inn and dress down the steel that we showed on the pitch. I loved the fact that we had 56 sending offs in Wenger's first 9 years and were a referees nightmare when on the field. I loved that Wenger never so much as remotely batted an eyelid at this and I loved just how good we were at playing with 10. Now, however, I feel that it wasn't a case of Wenger letting it happen and more a case of he just had no say in the matter - hence the reason he rids himself so quickly of players with an opinion and surrounded himself for so long with yes men and children.

That said, I never advocated his sacking, just wanted a change in philosophy as I saw, long before it came, this very thing happening to the msn if the talent he was working with wasn't overwhelmingly better than the opposition he was up against - it's why we struggled so badly in Europe for years with a side that should really have dominated during that time.

Despite all of this, I am sad to see the man he's become, because even when I was the only one openly berating his decisions and his management, I at least took solace in the fact that he was proving me wrong and Arsenal were still either winning and or competing readily. He doesn't have that any more and I struggle to see a reason as to why we can't just move on.

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"I remember reading RVP quotes when he joined Man U. He said he was pretty much satisfied when signed Cazorla, Giroud and Podolski.
Wenger just couldn't stand his outburst."
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Not to mention that Wenger pretty much got next to no credit for last season's finish - or at least he was loitering a long way behind "RVP's one man travelling circus" and "Harry Redknapp's LOL a minute freak spring festival."

It's almost as if Wenger has said "'l'll show you who the most important person in this club's success is," and it's just so completely counter productive.

Wenger is just far too emotional, too close to the source and far too reactive when once he was one of the most proactive coaches around.

You said depressing earlier on and I think that pretty much sums up the whole situation.